(June 12, 2023 at 2:08 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:(June 12, 2023 at 1:29 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I truly want to be in heaven, if there is one, and the alternative is hell, if there is one.
Well the bad news is none of us will live in heaven. We are to actually live on Earth after Judgment with Jesus as our King.. Do you believe in earth? If so you are 1/2 way there.
Quote:The problem is, I don't think they're real. Not the Buddhist or Muslim versions either. The NT assumes hell, but it never lays out evidence or reasoning to support its existence.Kinda don't need any of that when the Authority on it says it is so.
You are trying to apply a scientific standard on a promise that was introduced before science. meaning why would it meet scientific standards of proof before science was invented?
Quote:It didn't have to, it was a given that people in the region believed in the hell that Jesus described, or at least Hades as the Romans believed. I don't want to suffer forever, but I can't think of a good reason to believe anyone will. I can see why someone raised to believe it would; but I don't see why someone who never heard of it would find it plausible.
if you want a reason ask god to give you one. ask him to show you the gates of hell. more than one person alive has had a vision of what is to come. Even if this does not meet the scientific standards you think you need, it will be real enough for you.
Sounds like you're a JW. Is that correct? I believe King's Cross Station in London is real, I don't think that gets me halfway to believing in the Wizarding World of Harry Potter.
I'm not convinced that Jesus was an authority on hell. I'm not even convinced he was a real person, though I lean about 51% in that direction. You have to believe the Bible is true before any of the stories can be convincing; and I have found the Bible to be very unconvincing in the first place. I reject the idea that I should accept some promise without evidence just because it was made before fact checking was a thing.
I believe that if I asked and prayed hard enough for a vision of a Buddhist hell, I might get a vision of it. If I went on a vision quest, I might have a vision of a talking animal. Visions seem to be very culture specific for some reason. It's almost like they come from inside the petitioner's own brain and are shaped by what they already believe.
Here's what I believe: a person's belief in something should be proportional to the evidence for it. There were lots of things written before scientific standards of evidence were formulated, and that's a terrible reason to believe them. Hearsay is terrible evidence. Visions are terrible evidence (problem of contradictory revelations). It's okay that you don't have good arguments for your religious beliefs, no one else does either. I don't blame you for believing what you were raised to believe that's also what the people you love believe. That's very human. But I'll be very surprised if you have anything persuasive to anyone who doesn't already accept your premises.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.