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If everything has a purpose then evil doesn't exist
RE: If everything has a purpose then evil doesn't exist
(June 13, 2023 at 6:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(June 13, 2023 at 3:32 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: I said all morality is relative. God's standard Identified as "righteousness" is not relative. God's righteousness is fixed. Making Morality Man's societal standard or Man's version of righteousness which allows for or incorporates what man has deemed as minor sin.
If all morality is relative - then whatever gods morality is, would be relative. This is tautologically true.  If, otoh, you believe that gods morality is not relative...then you cannot believe that all morality is relative.

One way or another, you've misspoken.

false dichotomy. If God's might did not ultimately determine what is and what is not right, yes I would agree. as God's standard would be relative to everyone outside of his circle of influence. but again this subject ties back into the initial discussion of whoever has the most power makes the rules. Those rules made from absolute power are the standard in which all will be judged. So perhaps philosophically those rules can be seen through a lens of relativity, but ultimately they are the absolute standard in which all are judged by Him.

This fact is what fuels the need to kill god off in their hearts and minds so they can in fact create their own standard of right and wrong.


Quote:Any 'objective' moral standard that is not God's righteousness is just another form of moral relativism.
I think you're going to have alot of trouble demonstrating that claim.

Not at all. As again all moral standards have changed over time. Even the child sex issue was not an issue if you go back far enough to when life expectancy was mid 20 to early 30 years old. Back then if one was old enough to procreate they were considered a mature adult. This clearly has changed. This change demonstrate that even object morality is also relative to the time and society we live in. which can be summed up by saying object morality is simply generational relative morality. You believe a point of morality is intrinsically right and or wrong because that act is always right or wrong. I have demonstrated this not to be the case because ALL acts even the murder of babies can be morally justified at one point or another in our history. What gives a point of morality the tinge of objectivity is because it does not change or has not changed within several generations.

Which to the point I was making when I rhetorically asked if this generational morality concerning MAPs changes will you be on board with the change? Or will you remain devoted to the what seems intrinsically wrong? If you remain, then can you truly say you prefer a fluid morality over an absolute unchanging standard. (Yes I know you say you are objective in your morality but as I am pointing out here all morality outside of God is relative/fluid.)


Quote: If the good and bad making properties are the traditions of a society, then we are discussing a fundamentally relativistic society.  
then that would include all points of object morality as well as again all current points of object morality have changed over the years.
Quote:In contrast..in any objective moral system, the good and bad making properties of x - must be factual properties of x. 
and what I'm saying is historically "X" is a variable, as "X" has not always retained it's current value. as again All 'Xs' values have changed at one point or another.

Quote:Not properties of a given subjects society or tradition.  I'll give you three claims, see if you can spot the objective one?

1.  It's bad to punch people in the face because we never have before.
2.  It's bad to punch people in the face because our government says so.
3.  It's bad to punch people in the face because punching people in the face causes harm.
And what I'm saying causing people harm say, 50 years ago in this country was a immoral thing. In fact causing certain people harm was your job as a red blooded American. You were expected to punch a communist, socialist, or any other anti American value person in the face because it caused them harm. The current moral code about doing no harm to anyone for any reason is a relatively new addition.

Quote:If the good and bad making properties are daddy declarations - that would fall somewhere between relativism and subjectivism.  Neither of those two is objectivism.
Thank you for agreeing with my initial point which is there is NO Object morality. As it is a generationally based morality that you yourself define as relative or subjectively based morality.

Quote:I find that I mostly don't need to be stopped from doing bad shit. 
That's because whatever form of morality you subscribe to allows you to move the goal posts from the standard set by god. That's the purpose of all forms of morality. It's man's self defined, self appointed form of righteousness, that allows him to accept and adopt things as being moral, that under God he would see maybe as a 'minor sin.' For the purpose of self identifying as a 'good' person and not a 'bad' person person under God's rule. Over time the line in the sand that defines the self modeled righteousness of man's morality changes and what once was considered evil, is now acceptable. Which again is the whole point and purpose of having a standard apart from God's.. To move the goal post when a society is desensitized enough to normalize what once was considered sin. I am sure you are old enough to remember a time where homosexuality was the unforgivable sin to most people in society, Now it's the polar opposite. the point being morality changes to accommodate the sins we would have to repent of under God.

The point of all of that is to say that if You fully subscribe to the moral standards of popular culture or you subscribe to the generational standard of 'objective morality' fully and at the same time discount God's standards you are 100% beholden to what society tells you is right and wrong. Which is fine and great if you live here and now, but not so much if you were born in china under Mao or hitler's Germany or Kim's North Korea, or the Roman Empire (sending people to the coliseum to be slaughtered for entertainment purposes,) or in colonial America during salvery. As you are apart of a wicked evil and have no clue. Which in of itself is not so bad as you are a product of your time and culture who is or ultimately will be lost to history. However if you have to answer to an all powerful God who's standard you will be judge by, there maybe an issue.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: If everything has a purpose then evil doesn't exist - by R-Farmer - June 14, 2023 at 10:08 am

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