(June 15, 2023 at 6:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It’s gettin unwieldy to correct you point by point, on account of how you can’t seem to get anything right.
I’ll give you a quick and dirty primer on metaethical positions. It’s nothing I haven’t already explained, but maybe you’ll take the time to listen…and then genuinely reflect on how much of a flaming ass you’ve made of yourself.
Within the set of cognitive metaethical theories there are three broad positions. Subjectivism, relativism, and objectivism. Metaethical subjectivism posits that things are right or wrong insomuch as you, a, god, or a house cat thinks so. Metaethical relativism posits that things are right or wrong insomuch as your family, your tribe, our your culture says so. Metaethical objectivism posits that things are right or wrong insomuch as those things possess right or wrong making properties.
They’re called cognitivist positions because they describe facts. Facts about you, our your group, or the thing itself. There are other positions. Non cognitive..where bad would be more accurately understood as “yuck” - and then…ofc, there’s error theory. Which isn’t so much a position on morality as a position on moral systems. That for whatever reason or no reason, regardless of whether there are moral facts, they can’t be gotten right.
I’ve already discussed the many ways my very Christian and constantly changing society fucks the pooch- so there’s no charitable explanation for why you continue to yammer on about moral relativism with me. I think moral relativism is wrong. There’s no point in asking me whether things are only wrong on tuesdays, or at any point in past or future. Slavery is wrong now, and it was wrong when Christendom enslaved whole continents. It’s pointless to ask me if abortion is bad, because I use a harm standard. OFC it is, yet another way that my very Christian society has been fucking up. Who do you think is bortin all the babbies?
Change is fine. If I’m doing something morally incorrect because I don’t have some relevant fact…I’d want to change that. If I thought left hand turns were bad because every time someone turned left it killed a puppy, and you showed me that it didn’t…then my moral conclusion would change. Not because it’s relative, but because I was wrong. Same as getting a math problem wrong.
Let’s see if you can do any better going forward, shall we?
Look, I get all of this. I even admitted agreeing with this from a philosophical stand point. As It all sounds very well thought out and good. Here's the problem/reason I can not fully accept everything you said as stated.. The practical application of morality does not completely jive with what you say here. The observations made and the classification of morality is rather short sited and does not take into account, that with out a transcendent absolute point of reference like say God's law/Righteousness, there is absolutely no way we can assign or say things possess right or wrong properties/have intrinsic moral value. Because when the predominate culture changes those right or wrong properties get redefined. As again might literally makes right.
The only way those right or wrong properties transcend societal change is if a greater power or greater authority cements those changes. Kinda how like God's law has seen empires come and Go. and while the morality of say the Roman Empire set the subjective standards of morality for hundreds of years, these standards fell when the empire fell. ( Example we no longer endorse blood sports to the death as an acceptable form of entertainment.)
Now I know you have identified what I describe here and a Metaethical relativism, and that there is an unchanging standard of metaethical objectivism which I am willing to go along with IF and only if you can provide just one example of a moral standard that has not changed. Who's intrinsic value/inherent right or wrong properties is the only defining factor on whether a deed is considered right or wrong. Which again should remain a constant through out time. meaning all cultures are forced to adopt this given point of morality.
