RE: Isaiah 53, 700 B.C: Historical Evidence of the Divine Omniscience.
July 23, 2023 at 5:47 am
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2023 at 6:30 am by Bucky Ball.)
Quote:Isaiah 53 is one single passage that has probably led to Millions accepting Christ because it such a Clear Prophecy about Him that pre-dates His Birth:
No it isn't.
More complete and utter bullshit.
Isaiah was was talking about Israel. This is crap from radical Christian apologists. Rabbinic Judaism says Isaiah 53 universally acknowledges the “servant” to be the nation of Israel who endured suffering at the hands of the invading nations. ((Midrash Rabbah (Numbers XXIII.2), Zohar (Genesis & Leviticus), Talmud (Brochos 5a), Rashi, Joseph Kara, Ibn Ezra, Joseph Kimchi, David Kimchi, Nachmanadies, Abarbinbanel, et all))
Origen, a prominent and influential church father, conceded in the year 248 CE – that the consensus among the Jews in his time was that Isaiah 53 “bore reference to the whole [Jewish] people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.” ((Origen, Contra Celsum, Chadwick, Henry; Cambridge Press, book 1, chapter 55, page 50))
The broad consensus among Jewish, and even some Christian commentators, that the “servant” in Isaiah 52-53 refers to the nation of Israel is understandable. Isaiah 53, which is the fourth of four renowned Servant Songs, is umbilically connected to its preceding chapters. The “servant” in each of the three previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the nation of Israel.
Isaiah 41:8-9
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”
Isaiah 44:1
But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!
Isaiah 44:21
Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isaiah 45:4
For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.
Isaiah 48:20
Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob!”
Isaiah 49:3
And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”
It's not Jesus.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/isaiah
At the time the 3 different authors whose writings are combined in Isaiah, Jews do not (and still does not) accept the bullshit of Fundamentalist "prophesy".
It's ALL based on a foundational error Christians made up about prophesy and this passage.
The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future.
So you often hear fundies talking about "prophesy", and how various prophesies were a 'foretelling", or prediction of the future, and indeed they count them up as "proof" that Jesus or whatever HAS to be true, as the "prophecy" came true. In fact Deuteronomy forbade fortune telling, omen reading and divination, thus we know it was an abomination to even think in these terms for many/most centuries in Hebrew culture.
Deuteronomy 18:10
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft"
Christian fundies are interpreting omens. It was forbidden.
Isaiah was not talking about a future time. He was obviously talking about Israel. With the rise of Apocalypticism, around the turn of the millennium, this changed somewhat, and is evidenced in many Christian writings, including the gospels, as they adopted the notions absent in ancient Israel, but coming into popular view with the Essenes. In terms of Hebrew culture, the "telling of or prediction of" the future, was unknown, and forbidden, and not at ALL a view of the major prophets themselves. However in the the new view, certain "hidden meanings" or "pesherim" began to be looked for, in the practice of Midrash. The name for this is called "pesher", (or seeking a "hidden meaning"), which was not even known to the original speaker/writer, but only "revealed" later to certain believers. Originally, the (plural) "pesherim" were only fully revealed to the Son of Righteousness, (the leader of the Essenes), and the idea was first found and fully understood after scholars read the Dead Sea scrolls, and was a sub category of "Midrash", (or study of the texts).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
Thus we see that "prophesy" as fortune telling as began to be practiced in Judaism around the First Century, (and picked up by Christians and the gospel writers at the time), really was a very late invention and never a classical part of Hebrew scripture, or understanding, either interpretation, or intention, and certainly was not the function of the ancient office of "prophet", in Hebrew culture, who was to be a "mouthpiece" to the people of their own day, and not Madame Zelda with her crystal ball.
Matthew 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. Jesus then left them and went away."
This is just more fundamentalist bullshit being foisted on us by an ignorant preacher.
It's also hilarious that this cherry-picking sites Crossan, who teaches the resurrection never happened, and that it was a "parable". LOL
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist