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Is the suffering worth it
#95
RE: Is the suffering worth it
(August 21, 2023 at 1:32 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: At best, as much as I can understand, QM allows for randomness but not agent causality in the universe.  I can't see how LFW can possibly exist under materialism.

Please see the relevant YT video by Sabine Hossenfelder.

I'll put link, but it may get expunged:
...

I agree.

I would argue that the concept of free-will is logically inconsistent.

That doesn't mean that humans don't have agency, because we do.  I'm not sure how to define agency, as some definitions would include current AI, and I'm not sure that's correct.  

We make goal-directed choices, but we do this from an internal chaotic system.  Our brains work in a complex feedback loop.  This feedback results in a chaotic system where one cannot predict the choice accurately, even if one had an exact computer analog of our internal brain state.  The choice can also be altered by conditioning, such as laws and moral belief, making the idea of being "responsible for one's actions" reasonable (not because our choices are un-caused, but because knowledge of the rules allows most people to follow them).
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Messages In This Thread
Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 20, 2023 at 11:37 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 20, 2023 at 11:39 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 12:24 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 20, 2023 at 11:39 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 12:32 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 12:45 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 21, 2023 at 5:47 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 1:08 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Gawdzilla Sama - August 21, 2023 at 6:16 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 6:20 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Gawdzilla Sama - August 21, 2023 at 6:27 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 6:30 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Gawdzilla Sama - August 21, 2023 at 7:57 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 2:11 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 3:02 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 3:05 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 3:11 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by h4ym4n - August 21, 2023 at 4:46 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 3:13 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 3:19 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 3:20 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 3:20 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 5:51 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2023 at 6:00 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 6:06 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 6:06 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 6:18 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 6:19 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 6:22 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by h4ym4n - August 21, 2023 at 6:55 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:07 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by h4ym4n - August 21, 2023 at 7:24 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ravenshire - August 21, 2023 at 6:07 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by arewethereyet - August 21, 2023 at 6:14 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 11:48 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 7:11 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 6:26 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 6:34 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 6:35 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 6:38 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 6:47 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:10 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:11 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:20 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:26 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 7:15 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:35 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:44 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:51 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:52 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 7:54 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by h4ym4n - August 21, 2023 at 8:13 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by h4ym4n - August 21, 2023 at 8:12 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by no one - August 21, 2023 at 7:46 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:51 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:57 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 7:59 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by no one - August 21, 2023 at 8:30 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 8:32 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by no one - August 21, 2023 at 8:33 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 8:49 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 9:29 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 9:30 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 9:36 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 9:42 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 9:47 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 9:48 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 10:04 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 10:07 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 10:22 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 10:28 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Thumpalumpacus - August 21, 2023 at 10:57 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 11:04 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 11:23 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Thumpalumpacus - August 21, 2023 at 1:27 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 11:26 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 11:31 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 11:35 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 11:44 am
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 12:16 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 12:39 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 12:01 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Aegon - August 21, 2023 at 12:34 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Aegon - August 21, 2023 at 12:24 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Ahriman - August 21, 2023 at 1:05 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Aegon - August 21, 2023 at 1:08 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 12:50 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 12:57 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 1:01 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 1:08 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 1:21 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 1:23 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Angrboda - August 21, 2023 at 1:27 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by FrustratedFool - August 21, 2023 at 1:32 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by Thumpalumpacus - August 21, 2023 at 1:43 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by HappySkeptic - August 21, 2023 at 1:55 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by The Valkyrie - August 21, 2023 at 6:13 pm
RE: Is the suffering worth it - by MarcusA - August 21, 2023 at 7:15 pm

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