(September 7, 2023 at 9:42 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: What does truly spiritual mean to you?
It’s a concept. And the more you are into these things (I mean spirituality) the more you can understand it. And I am not avoiding the question. It’s simply not a philosophical concept.
So let’s say: “Something that is related to true spirituality / true faith or religion”
Bucky Hall:
“All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.”
No, the word “God” is mentioned only in:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
(The American declaration of Independence. 1776)
I mean saying that in an age of Kings, emperors, slaves, serfs, landlord and God-King has to be somehow spiritual. Yes, it’s mainly the philosophers of enlightenment. But all I say is that I am seeing a parallel with the core meaning of the main spiritual traditions as well.
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Thumpalumpagus: That’s the anarchist + communist interpretation. “The power has been taken from the aristocracy and has been given to the bourgeoisies instead of the people itself.”
But I don’t agree with this ideology anymore. This was not meant to be like that. At least not in the end of the 18th / 19th century where people where truly struggling. (See movie “Les Misérables” (Anne Hathaway et al. 2012).
There was a shift in understanding. Truly: people did not want a new king or something like that. They wanted real change. To me, that’s a change in the energy or the consciousness of the general population.
It cannot be science and philosophy alone. Because looks what has happened 100 years later: Consumerism happened. The nobility of the past was gone. The Bourgeoisie of the early 20th century was also gone. We created new elites who started to erode all of our democratic gains in the name of economic growth and consumerism.
Right now I’m at Kate Raworth’s article in The Climate Book. She’s a professor of Economics at Oxford University. I don’t know about her faith. But she is demonstrating how the principle of “I shop therefore I am” is actually ruining our lives. According to this the richest 10% of the world have to reduce their consumption to a tenth of what it is today if we are to stay below 1.5 degree of global warming. Also the propaganda apparatus of the capitalist system has to stop pushing people to buy things and then more things and then other things. The propaganda apparatus of the consumerist society is actually doing this so that rich people can make profit and then more profit, and then more profit. It tell women for instance that cigarettes were “their torches of freedom”. And this system is filled with all sorts of craziness. Like 1/10th of our clothes are wasted before they are even sold. Then 73 % ends in landfills and perhaps 1 % of it gets to be recycled. This is all based on a model of a human being that want, and wants, and then wants even more. Which is scientifically incorrect. Because objects cannot replace things like health, family, friendship, finding meaning in one’s job (and that’s another Marxist principle), being respected by other people, living in a healthy social environment, having access to art, literature and some of the small pleasures of life. So then Kate Raworth is coming with new solution like discarding all mega-yatches and privet jets. Using electrical trains instead of air travel. Creating a free public health system that serves everyone and has a lower carbon footprint (European public health systems are said to have a third of the completely privatized US health system), switching to a circular economy that limits the excessive consumption of some and promote the adequate level of consumption of others. She calls this “switching to a 1,5 C lifestyle” and you can go here for more:
https://takethejump.org/
So, this is an economist who uses her knowledge in economy to get to some conclusions. Now that she said it it’s scientific knowledge. But Hello, we have been saying these same things since when? 1400 Years? 2000 Years? 4000 Years? (or even more).
So the same applies to the Constitution of the US for instance. If it was all science and philosophy (and/or reason) than why are some people working so hard to dismantle all of it and turn the US into some sort of plutocracy?
Again, My answer: The separation of powers is there to limit the ability of the human Ego. Those who designed it were aware of this fundamental weakness of the human nature so they gave different powers to different elected individuals who would always keep one another in check.
My theory: The people behind these schemes, had to be aware of at least some of the basic principles of spirituality.
And also: Equality, freedom and liberty for all, spirit of brotherhood etc. That was a huge ideological revolution at the time it emerged. And it is still like “a dream” we are chasing after and trying to protect today. So it has to be spiritual in its essence. Or at least that’s how I see it.
Another quote from Raworth: “Possessing less and sharing more can turn out to be liberating. It simply feels good.”
This is 2023 and scientific books are saying this. But again: we’ve been trying to say these things for centuries. Nobody listened
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