(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: I'm not sure that makes sense. Believeing in X because you have found no reason not to believe in X is not sufficient warrant to believe in X. You must have a positive case as well as an absence of defeators.
I don't measure belief by disbelief. I believe because of the reasons to believe. So, test me. Give me a reason not to believe, keeping in mind that my only hobby other than video games is to debate atheists. Informal, yes, otherwise I would die of boredom, but debate nonetheless. For 27 years of my 30 years of belief.
(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: When I was a believer I could answer the question I posed to you, and could give it succinctly in a post. Many believing philosophers of religion could do the same, pointing to what arguments they find credible and/or to religious experiences they've had. Likewise, now as an apostate I could explain succinctly why I lost my faith and why I no longer believe.
And I, to some extent, was the same in the opposite order, except for that I really didn't have much information to go on as an unbeliever, except for my opinion that believers were obviously idiots and hypocrites. But, who isn't? And our switch from one to the other is completely logical, no? It's a hung jury. People tend to be tribal and xenophobic. They want everyone to believe the same thing. What they believe. Not just religion, everything. That probably has a lot to do with why people can never be happy unless they just don't give a shit. But, then they just want everyone not to give a shit. People are, as I say, idiots. We are idiots.
(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: It seems that your reason for believing is that you read various religious texts and found that something within one of them cohered sufficiently with your intuitions and currently existing WV to take it seriously. And then in taking it seriously you became more convinced that it made sense to you and that there were no good segments against it. Personally, I don't think that sufficient good reason to make your belief rational.
Okay, what do you think is sufficient in that regard?
(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: That aside, I'm curious as to you saying you've discovered no valid sceptical argument. Even as a believer I would have found that an odd statement.
That's an excellent point. You're right, I should have worded that better. I do find atheism to be a logical conclusion. Theism, ultimately, requires faith. Maybe I was expressing that from a strictly personal perspective rather than a general one. For a long time I've examined the skeptical argument, although I wouldn't put it that way because I myself am skeptical. I'm skeptical of what I believe, what the Bible says, and what Jehovah says. I'm just skeptical by nature. What I mean is that I haven't found an argument that debunks my own. To me skeptical doesn't mean rejecting it means careful examination without being dogmatic in as much as that is possible.
When I'm wrong I'll put up a fight like anyone, because our ideas become a part of us all. But eventually I will see the truth. The truth is what I want. And I know, everyone says that, but I don't want what I believe to be the truth to be the truth, I want the truth no matter what I believe.
(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Laying aside technical issues with the word valid (which I'm not expert enough to get into), are you honestly saying that there are no fair or strong counter-arguments that give you pause?
Oh, sure. That's why I learn doing this. If someone says something that I believe is wrong, and I'm not sure or there is a possibility of error I have to go back and reevaluate it.
(September 17, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Most philosophers of religion take the counterarguments very seriously, evebif they ultimately fall on the theistic side at the end. If you were going to steelman atheism against your particular brand of theism, what would be the strongest arguments against your POV?
Uh, there isn't any right now that I recall, but examples of the past would be that the record of the Hebrew written language and the Christ Myth Theory set me back a couple days. I'm an idiot. That was stupid. I actually became an unbeliever for a few days over that.