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The Historical Jesus
#67
RE: The Historical Jesus
(May 20, 2024 at 6:32 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(May 20, 2024 at 6:02 am)h311inac311 Wrote:      The fact that most of the early apostles proved that they were willing to die for their faith does add something to the veracity of their claims.

There is no evidence that apostles died for Jesus or their faith. Not even the Bible makes that claim (Bible mentions deaths of two apostles: James and Judas). There were later legends of how each apostles died invented by Christians because they love inventing stories and then believe in them as if they are true. Like, Christians invented thousands of saints and their biographies and then believe in them as if they really existed and died for their faith. Take saint Christopher - he never existed.

An excerpt from Church History Book II from author Eusebius, a 4th century church historian.

The Roman Tertullian is likewise a witness of this. He writes as follows: Examine your records. There you will find that Nero was the first that persecuted this doctrine, particularly then when after subduing all the east, he exercised his cruelty against all at Rome. We glory in having such a man the leader in our punishment. For whoever knows him can understand that nothing was condemned by Nero unless it was something of great excellence.

5. Thus publicly announcing himself as the first among God's chief enemies, he was led on to the slaughter of the apostles. It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero. This account of Peter and Paul is substantiated by the fact that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day.


https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250102.htm


These words come from someone on my side of the debate so of course they will be dis-regarded as bias. 

Beyond that, the well has already been poisoned against all believers, so what can any of us say in our defense?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 11:19 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 11:24 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 11:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 11:29 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 16, 2024 at 12:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:00 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 16, 2024 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 2:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 3:31 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 3:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:34 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 12:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 12:25 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 12:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 12:56 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 1:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Huolpoch - May 21, 2024 at 1:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 11:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:10 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:20 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:31 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 1:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:36 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 3:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 4:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 4:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 4:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 4:24 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 17, 2024 at 4:59 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 18, 2024 at 7:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 18, 2024 at 2:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h4ym4n - May 18, 2024 at 5:52 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 5:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 5:18 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by MR. Macabre 666 - May 16, 2024 at 5:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 6:39 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 17, 2024 at 3:18 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 17, 2024 at 2:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 18, 2024 at 7:11 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 18, 2024 at 9:45 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2024 at 11:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 6:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 7:06 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 18, 2024 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:14 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 20, 2024 at 8:55 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 20, 2024 at 12:17 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 22, 2024 at 8:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 28, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 3:38 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 18, 2024 at 7:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 18, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 5:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 6:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:35 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 7:04 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 3:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2024 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 6:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 7:20 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 7:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 24, 2024 at 5:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 20, 2024 at 7:33 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by no one - May 20, 2024 at 8:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 20, 2024 at 11:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 11:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 2:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 22, 2024 at 8:41 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 22, 2024 at 8:56 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 22, 2024 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 22, 2024 at 9:58 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 22, 2024 at 11:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 22, 2024 at 11:37 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 22, 2024 at 12:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 22, 2024 at 1:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 22, 2024 at 5:48 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - May 22, 2024 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 22, 2024 at 8:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Astreja - May 23, 2024 at 1:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 23, 2024 at 3:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Secular Elf - May 20, 2024 at 6:54 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2024 at 9:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 22, 2024 at 9:52 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 23, 2024 at 4:00 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 24, 2024 at 4:25 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 25, 2024 at 1:12 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 25, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 27, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - May 28, 2024 at 2:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 28, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - May 29, 2024 at 2:20 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 29, 2024 at 9:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 1, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 2, 2024 at 11:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 3, 2024 at 4:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 3, 2024 at 12:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - June 3, 2024 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 3, 2024 at 8:06 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 3, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - June 4, 2024 at 12:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 28, 2024 at 1:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 24, 2024 at 5:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2024 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 26, 2024 at 7:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 26, 2024 at 8:44 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 27, 2024 at 4:58 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2024 at 7:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - May 26, 2024 at 8:19 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2024 at 12:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 26, 2024 at 3:59 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2024 at 9:04 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2024 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - May 29, 2024 at 9:45 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 1, 2024 at 7:48 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 29, 2024 at 11:30 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2024 at 5:08 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 2, 2024 at 6:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - June 2, 2024 at 8:42 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2024 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 3, 2024 at 1:29 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - June 3, 2024 at 2:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 3, 2024 at 10:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 21, 2024 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2024 at 12:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 19, 2024 at 10:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 19, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 21, 2024 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 3:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 22, 2024 at 8:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2024 at 9:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:43 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 28, 2024 at 7:56 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2024 at 8:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 29, 2024 at 8:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mr Greene - July 3, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 3:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - July 29, 2024 at 4:25 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 28, 2024 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 28, 2024 at 7:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 29, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2024 at 3:06 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - June 28, 2024 at 7:36 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - June 28, 2024 at 7:41 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Disagreeable - July 22, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Modern Atheism - July 16, 2024 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Francisco Nova - July 22, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by A. Secular Human - July 23, 2024 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Francisco Nova - July 25, 2024 at 10:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - July 25, 2024 at 11:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 26, 2024 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - July 26, 2024 at 12:40 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 10:43 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 3:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 29, 2024 at 7:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - July 24, 2024 at 10:49 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 11:01 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2024 at 11:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by zebo-the-fat - July 26, 2024 at 12:29 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by HappySkeptic - July 26, 2024 at 8:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 8:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 29, 2024 at 8:55 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 29, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 14, 2024 at 7:59 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 7:03 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 8:47 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 9:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 14, 2024 at 8:59 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2024 at 12:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 15, 2024 at 7:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 7:51 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 7:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 15, 2024 at 11:14 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 11:47 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 15, 2024 at 4:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 15, 2024 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 16, 2024 at 8:24 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2024 at 3:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 16, 2024 at 5:17 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 16, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 23, 2024 at 12:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 23, 2024 at 1:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 9:49 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 12:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 28, 2024 at 6:20 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 28, 2024 at 6:10 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 7:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 29, 2024 at 5:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 4:46 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 5:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2024 at 5:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - August 28, 2024 at 5:58 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 6:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 28, 2024 at 5:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 7:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - September 10, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 28, 2024 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 10, 2024 at 7:06 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 7:23 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 10, 2024 at 7:47 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 12:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - September 10, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - August 29, 2024 at 5:11 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 29, 2024 at 5:42 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - August 30, 2024 at 4:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - August 31, 2024 at 2:33 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 31, 2024 at 5:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by HappySkeptic - August 31, 2024 at 10:36 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 31, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - September 1, 2024 at 7:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - September 1, 2024 at 7:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - September 1, 2024 at 8:10 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 1, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 1, 2024 at 10:30 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Modern Atheism - September 8, 2024 at 6:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2024 at 10:25 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - September 8, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 12, 2024 at 6:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 12, 2024 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 14, 2024 at 1:09 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - September 14, 2024 at 4:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2024 at 2:35 pm

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