The Historical Jesus

[Mister Agenda]

1. The big word in your response here is might. But the eye-witness accounts might also be true, good thing we have 4 early accounts from 4 early journalists that pass every archeological test we can currently throw at them.

To the extent that eye-witness accounts of other gods might also be true. They weren't journalists by any reasonable measure, the later the gospel the more embellished it is. The oldest one didn't claim a resurrection, that was added later. There are no archeological tests for miracles.

2. But until Matthew Stone and Trey Parker did what they did these religions operated based on secrecy. The church of latter-day saints acts like it is just another denomination of Christianity in order to lure people in. Then they introduce you to the teachings of Joseph Smith. Only after years of indoctrination will they begin to share with you the actual history of the golden plates and Joseph meeting with the angel Moroni. Most people wouldn't convert if they were shown the real truth about Joseph Smith as soon as they walked through the door. By the time they know the truth they already have a whole community to disappoint should they chose to leave the faith.

Same largely goes for Scientology, it starts with a therapy session (audit) where the therapist assures you that they have a solution for all of your problems. Years of indoctrination and communal integration passes and eventually they may tell you who L Ron Hubbard actually was. When the story doesn't hold up to scrutiny the cultists learn very quickly that they have to keep it a secret or else they will push people away.

Christians, on the other hand, put the Gosple front and center, it is all throughout the New Testament (as well as the Old Testament if you have eyes to see). Paul puts Christ's resurrection front and center in his ministry. Nothing was hidden. One of my favorite lines on this matter is this one from the book of Acts. "For the king knows about these matters, and I speak to him also with confidence, since I am persuaded that none of these things escape his notice; for this has not been done in a corner."

Islam is outgrowing Christianity, what does that imply about the truth of their message?

3. Kind of circular, so in order for history to be history are you saying that atheism needs to be baked into the cake?

If you think atheism is baked into cookbooks without recipes requiring prayers, I suppose it could follow you might think so. History isn't equipped to confirm miracles. You can make it a conspiracy to promote atheism if you wish; but I would dearly love to know what methodology you think they could use to determine that a Christian miracle actually happened and was from God while a Hindu miracle didn't happen and wasn't from Ganesh.

4. Thank you.

You're quite welcome.

5. Yet here you are spending much of your time discussing this insignificant story. Why aren't you debating a Zeus apologist? How many defenders of Thor are left alive?

Beats me how many Thor defenders are left alive, the only followers of Thor I know don't seem to care if other people believe they're right. I've had lively arguments with Bigfoot defenders and ghost defenders and Loch Ness monster defenders though.

Contemporary historians didn't make note of him? Now how do you know that to be the case?

Sometimes absence of evidence IS evidence of absence, when the evidence should be there. Contemporary historians who would have noted the events supposedly surrounding Matthew's version of the resurrection story if they had happened didn't say anything about hours of darkness during the day, the temple curtain being rent top to bottom, a major earthquatke, or people getting out of their graves and 'being seen by many'.

That said, I am inclined to think that it's slightly more likely than not that there was an itinerant rabbi on whose sayings the gospels are based and who got executed by the Romans and who became more popular as a martyr than they were in life. Hardly anyone made it into the history books back then; doesn't mean they didn't exist. But the guy with several thousand people showing up to his sermons who paraded into Jerusalem rodeo style on a colt AND an ass to cheering throngs...THAT guy would have gotten into the histories while he was still alive.