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The Historical Jesus
RE: The Historical Jesus
(June 3, 2024 at 4:15 am)Belacqua Wrote:
(June 2, 2024 at 11:51 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: Because if it isn't the brain that determines this, then we are left with what?

I don't know. This seems to me a problem.

If there is no identifiable anatomical structure, or interaction (say, a balance of hormones) that determines gender, then we have no objective, testable, empirical method of determining it. 

I mean, personally, it's OK with me if people want to identify however they want. But a personal claim is not one that science can deal with.

Put in another way, we could think about falsifiability. (Remember that it's common to say that any scientific claim must be falsifiable, and if it's not falsifiable it's not science.) 

If a person claims they are one gender or another, or none, how can this be falsified? If a person says "I'm female," is it EVER possible to say "no, you're not." If not, then we're dealing with some kind of truth which is not empirical, testable, scientific. We are to believe it based on an individual's claim -- not on evidence.

Yes, it is part of the scientific method to develop a falsifiable hypothesis.

The problem in this case has to do with complexity and the limitations of science.
Problem 1: There is no way to map out the brain at the neural level and to also not damage it.
Problem 2: If some technology is invented to solve Problem 1, there is another large barrier, which is problem 2. How do we identify what a circuit does?

In electronics, it is possible to look at different CPU circuits, different calculator circuits and be able to identify and adder circuit. There are small variation in adder circuits but basically, everyone now uses the same optimized circuit.
Can the same be done for the brain? Is it possible to recognize which part store a memory about a guy celebrating his 20 th birthday?
It is possible to recognize the circuit which makes a person prefer the blue color?

Right now, we don’t have a clue. The method used is to damage the neural circuit to figure out what it was for.
This is not something that can be done intentionally on a human.

Other things are much easier to test:
What is the glucose concentration in someone’s blood?
What is the sodium concentration in someone’s brain?
Is the heart structure healthy (Use a echography to image the heart)?
Is someone’s intestines ok? (give him some barium sulfate and use a x-ray video machine to visualize inside him)
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 11:19 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 11:24 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 11:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 11:29 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 16, 2024 at 12:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:00 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 16, 2024 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 2:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 3:31 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 3:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:34 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 12:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 12:25 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 12:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 12:56 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 1:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Huolpoch - May 21, 2024 at 1:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 11:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:10 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:20 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 1:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 1:31 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 1:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 6:36 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 3:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 4:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 4:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 4:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 4:24 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 17, 2024 at 4:59 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 18, 2024 at 7:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 18, 2024 at 2:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h4ym4n - May 18, 2024 at 5:52 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 16, 2024 at 5:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 16, 2024 at 5:18 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by MR. Macabre 666 - May 16, 2024 at 5:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 16, 2024 at 6:39 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 16, 2024 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 17, 2024 at 3:18 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 17, 2024 at 2:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 18, 2024 at 7:11 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 18, 2024 at 9:45 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2024 at 11:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 6:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 7:06 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 18, 2024 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:14 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 20, 2024 at 8:55 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 20, 2024 at 12:17 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 22, 2024 at 8:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 28, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 3:38 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 18, 2024 at 7:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 18, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 5:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 6:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 6:35 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 7:04 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 21, 2024 at 3:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2024 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 6:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 20, 2024 at 7:20 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 20, 2024 at 7:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 24, 2024 at 5:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 20, 2024 at 7:33 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by no one - May 20, 2024 at 8:22 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 20, 2024 at 11:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 11:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2024 at 2:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 22, 2024 at 8:41 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 22, 2024 at 8:56 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 22, 2024 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 22, 2024 at 9:58 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 22, 2024 at 11:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - May 22, 2024 at 11:37 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 22, 2024 at 12:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 22, 2024 at 1:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 22, 2024 at 5:48 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - May 22, 2024 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - May 22, 2024 at 8:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Astreja - May 23, 2024 at 1:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 23, 2024 at 3:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Secular Elf - May 20, 2024 at 6:54 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2024 at 9:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 22, 2024 at 9:52 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 23, 2024 at 4:00 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:01 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 24, 2024 at 4:25 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 24, 2024 at 4:42 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ravenshire - May 25, 2024 at 1:12 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 25, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 27, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - May 28, 2024 at 2:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 28, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - May 29, 2024 at 2:20 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - May 29, 2024 at 9:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 1, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 2, 2024 at 11:51 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 3, 2024 at 4:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 3, 2024 at 12:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - June 3, 2024 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 3, 2024 at 8:06 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 3, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - June 4, 2024 at 12:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - May 28, 2024 at 1:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 24, 2024 at 5:43 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2024 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - May 26, 2024 at 7:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - May 26, 2024 at 8:44 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - May 27, 2024 at 4:58 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2024 at 7:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - May 26, 2024 at 8:19 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2024 at 12:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - May 26, 2024 at 3:59 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2024 at 9:04 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2024 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - May 29, 2024 at 9:45 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - June 1, 2024 at 7:48 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - May 29, 2024 at 11:30 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2024 at 5:08 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 2, 2024 at 6:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - June 2, 2024 at 8:42 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2024 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 3, 2024 at 1:29 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - June 3, 2024 at 2:21 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ferrocyanide - June 3, 2024 at 10:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 21, 2024 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2024 at 12:02 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 19, 2024 at 10:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 19, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 21, 2024 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2024 at 3:28 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 22, 2024 at 8:50 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 22, 2024 at 9:38 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 22, 2024 at 10:43 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 28, 2024 at 7:56 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - June 28, 2024 at 8:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 29, 2024 at 8:15 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mr Greene - July 3, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 3:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - July 29, 2024 at 4:25 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 28, 2024 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - June 28, 2024 at 7:32 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Pat Mustard - June 29, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - June 28, 2024 at 3:06 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - June 28, 2024 at 7:36 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - June 28, 2024 at 7:41 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Disagreeable - July 22, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Modern Atheism - July 16, 2024 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Francisco Nova - July 22, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by A. Secular Human - July 23, 2024 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Francisco Nova - July 25, 2024 at 10:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - July 25, 2024 at 11:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 26, 2024 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - July 26, 2024 at 12:40 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 10:43 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 3:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 29, 2024 at 7:00 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - July 24, 2024 at 10:49 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 24, 2024 at 11:01 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2024 at 11:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by zebo-the-fat - July 26, 2024 at 12:29 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by HappySkeptic - July 26, 2024 at 8:02 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - July 29, 2024 at 8:27 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - July 29, 2024 at 8:55 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - July 29, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 14, 2024 at 7:59 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 7:03 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 8:47 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 14, 2024 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 14, 2024 at 9:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 14, 2024 at 8:59 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2024 at 12:07 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 15, 2024 at 7:18 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 7:51 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 7:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 15, 2024 at 11:14 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 15, 2024 at 11:47 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 15, 2024 at 4:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Belacqua - August 15, 2024 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 16, 2024 at 8:24 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2024 at 3:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 16, 2024 at 5:17 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - August 16, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 23, 2024 at 12:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 23, 2024 at 1:22 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 9:49 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 12:26 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 28, 2024 at 6:20 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 28, 2024 at 6:10 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 7:30 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Sheldon - August 29, 2024 at 5:21 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 4:46 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 5:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2024 at 5:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 5:50 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by arewethereyet - August 28, 2024 at 5:58 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2024 at 6:53 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 28, 2024 at 5:55 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - August 28, 2024 at 7:33 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - September 10, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Angrboda - August 28, 2024 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 10, 2024 at 7:06 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 7:23 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 10, 2024 at 7:47 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 12:12 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Mister Agenda - September 10, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 10, 2024 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - August 29, 2024 at 5:11 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 29, 2024 at 5:42 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - August 30, 2024 at 4:13 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Ahriman - August 31, 2024 at 2:33 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 31, 2024 at 5:09 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by HappySkeptic - August 31, 2024 at 10:36 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - August 31, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - September 1, 2024 at 7:13 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by brewer - September 1, 2024 at 7:39 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Silver - September 1, 2024 at 8:10 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 1, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 1, 2024 at 10:30 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Modern Atheism - September 8, 2024 at 6:40 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2024 at 10:25 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by Fake Messiah - September 8, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 12, 2024 at 6:26 am
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 12, 2024 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by h311inac311 - September 14, 2024 at 1:09 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Valkyrie - September 14, 2024 at 4:16 pm
RE: The Historical Jesus - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2024 at 2:35 pm

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