RE: why are we "The Story telling apes?"
December 28, 2011 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: December 28, 2011 at 12:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Incredibly interesting stuff yes. Keep in mind that most of what we know of prehistoric beliefs is conjecture, conjecture based upon good evidence, but conjecture nonetheless. That being said;
As soon as we started to describe our lack of understanding or sense of wonder as "magic" there would have been a "need" for people who could mediate or manipulate these forces. In some cultures shamans and "medicine men" were one and the same. With a variety of cures or talismans (some complete superstition others actually based on effect). In others, the two were distinctly separate offices. There are a lot of ideas as to what shamanism was. A common factor seems to be trance, or ecstatic states. The word we use, shaman, really only describes one brand of practioner. Tungus/turkic saman, and later shaman/shamanka-for females apparently (though shaman seems to have been equally applied to both). Some cultures that had no "gods" as such seem to have had shamans, in fact animism is enough to warrant shamanism. It really is a broad term that we use to describe people who are in the magic or spirituality business, but are not priests, strictly speaking (some cultures had both). The role has been variously seen as a blessing or a curse, some cultures believed that you could "take up" this role, and others that you were chosen for it by some party other than yourself. One way to view the whole enterprise is as an attempt by man to control or mitigate things around him (game, disease, weather, "luck") to produce a positive outcome. To be able to foretell future events, or influence them, or rectify past "wrongs". In this light it's not so hard to understand, we do this all the time, it's simply that the tools and descriptions available to shaman were not those that we are familiar with today (and much less effective). In some societies the office of shaman was a respected one, and so it becomes even easier imagine what motivation a person might have for becoming a shaman. In N. America, during westward expansion (and after) natives would often avail themselves of both traditional cures from shamans, or medicine men, and western medicine. So the concept of what a shaman is, and what they can do is really a malleable one, capable of incorporating just about anything (at least in this case). Much of shamanistic practice seems to have been sympathetic magic and visions. It's no huge stretch to understand why they may have believed what they did, if you put yourself in their position.
One of my favorite stories about the stars comes out of Africa. The Sun had many children, each as bright as itself, and there was no night. The Moon, being childless, was jealous and decided to gather up the suns children in a bag and throw them in the river. This was discovered, and the children were rescued, but the silt and mud at the bottom forever dimmed the children's light, and as punishment the Moon was sentenced to watch over them, an eternal reminder of what it had done, and just how numerous the Suns children were whilst it was barren. There are tons of similar stories, but thankfully many that are like night and day
.
(-Now, I may not have remember that story perfectly, I may even have blended stories together.....but give it a few thousand years and it will be difficult to tell the difference won't it? There's no commitment to accuracy in storytelling, only communication.)
The stars are hard to miss aren't they? We've spent a considerable amount of time watching them. If we didn't have stories to tell about them I'd start to wonder about our ability to tell stories. These stories (like any other stories) have been used for a wide range of reasons, which probably has a lot to do with why we tell stories in the first place. They give us a sense of memory beyond our own time (even if that memory is fabricated). They re-enforce cultural norms that may have already been present, or perhaps the stories we told are a cause for some of those norms. It's difficult to say since we've obviously been telling stories longer than we've been writing them down, and what survives may not be the first edition (I use the word "may", but it's pretty difficult to demonstrate that a story has survived intact even after the invention of writing, let alone before it). The idea that the stars do not move is an interesting one isn't it? I don't think we could make the case that this an observation in every case (unless we're calling it an inept observation, or an observation of a few choice stars made by people with very short lifespans and never questioned). It may have more to do with promoting a sense of consistency, steadfastness. In the case of Mithras one could see why this sort of ideal was promoted. The timelessness of one being an indicator or reference to that attribute in the other. These stories can be so fantastically complex. We had a lot of time to think about them. Often the narratives within an overarching myth structure all follow a consistent pattern, a sort of cycle, leading up to the "revelation" of divinity. "Look at the heavens, look at the land, look at our history, these things are heralds of [insert name here], and [insert name here] is like them."
It is really fantastic stuff. It's been said that magic (fortune-telling, astrology, talsimans and potions..and of course the religions that would develop from these) was our first attempt at science. I'm definitely on-board there. We tell stories about everything, one of those stories has been our "quest for knowledge". Variously described by the scriptures and holy books of our religions.
Which religious or spiritual tradition (or myths) really get their hooks into you?
As soon as we started to describe our lack of understanding or sense of wonder as "magic" there would have been a "need" for people who could mediate or manipulate these forces. In some cultures shamans and "medicine men" were one and the same. With a variety of cures or talismans (some complete superstition others actually based on effect). In others, the two were distinctly separate offices. There are a lot of ideas as to what shamanism was. A common factor seems to be trance, or ecstatic states. The word we use, shaman, really only describes one brand of practioner. Tungus/turkic saman, and later shaman/shamanka-for females apparently (though shaman seems to have been equally applied to both). Some cultures that had no "gods" as such seem to have had shamans, in fact animism is enough to warrant shamanism. It really is a broad term that we use to describe people who are in the magic or spirituality business, but are not priests, strictly speaking (some cultures had both). The role has been variously seen as a blessing or a curse, some cultures believed that you could "take up" this role, and others that you were chosen for it by some party other than yourself. One way to view the whole enterprise is as an attempt by man to control or mitigate things around him (game, disease, weather, "luck") to produce a positive outcome. To be able to foretell future events, or influence them, or rectify past "wrongs". In this light it's not so hard to understand, we do this all the time, it's simply that the tools and descriptions available to shaman were not those that we are familiar with today (and much less effective). In some societies the office of shaman was a respected one, and so it becomes even easier imagine what motivation a person might have for becoming a shaman. In N. America, during westward expansion (and after) natives would often avail themselves of both traditional cures from shamans, or medicine men, and western medicine. So the concept of what a shaman is, and what they can do is really a malleable one, capable of incorporating just about anything (at least in this case). Much of shamanistic practice seems to have been sympathetic magic and visions. It's no huge stretch to understand why they may have believed what they did, if you put yourself in their position.
One of my favorite stories about the stars comes out of Africa. The Sun had many children, each as bright as itself, and there was no night. The Moon, being childless, was jealous and decided to gather up the suns children in a bag and throw them in the river. This was discovered, and the children were rescued, but the silt and mud at the bottom forever dimmed the children's light, and as punishment the Moon was sentenced to watch over them, an eternal reminder of what it had done, and just how numerous the Suns children were whilst it was barren. There are tons of similar stories, but thankfully many that are like night and day
. (-Now, I may not have remember that story perfectly, I may even have blended stories together.....but give it a few thousand years and it will be difficult to tell the difference won't it? There's no commitment to accuracy in storytelling, only communication.)
The stars are hard to miss aren't they? We've spent a considerable amount of time watching them. If we didn't have stories to tell about them I'd start to wonder about our ability to tell stories. These stories (like any other stories) have been used for a wide range of reasons, which probably has a lot to do with why we tell stories in the first place. They give us a sense of memory beyond our own time (even if that memory is fabricated). They re-enforce cultural norms that may have already been present, or perhaps the stories we told are a cause for some of those norms. It's difficult to say since we've obviously been telling stories longer than we've been writing them down, and what survives may not be the first edition (I use the word "may", but it's pretty difficult to demonstrate that a story has survived intact even after the invention of writing, let alone before it). The idea that the stars do not move is an interesting one isn't it? I don't think we could make the case that this an observation in every case (unless we're calling it an inept observation, or an observation of a few choice stars made by people with very short lifespans and never questioned). It may have more to do with promoting a sense of consistency, steadfastness. In the case of Mithras one could see why this sort of ideal was promoted. The timelessness of one being an indicator or reference to that attribute in the other. These stories can be so fantastically complex. We had a lot of time to think about them. Often the narratives within an overarching myth structure all follow a consistent pattern, a sort of cycle, leading up to the "revelation" of divinity. "Look at the heavens, look at the land, look at our history, these things are heralds of [insert name here], and [insert name here] is like them."
It is really fantastic stuff. It's been said that magic (fortune-telling, astrology, talsimans and potions..and of course the religions that would develop from these) was our first attempt at science. I'm definitely on-board there. We tell stories about everything, one of those stories has been our "quest for knowledge". Variously described by the scriptures and holy books of our religions.
Which religious or spiritual tradition (or myths) really get their hooks into you?
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