What is Justice?

[reverendjeremiah]

Quite interesting... If justice is merely an opinion then by what authority is it enacted upon the masses? In Plato's work, Thrasymachus gives an answer to this

Ive read Plato's republic. I think Plato is an asshole. He wanted a type of democracy, but only of the "philosopher king" type; physically and mentally fit in a type of council. To get them elected, Plato suggested allowing everyone in the community to toss lots for who they wanted to represent the council. Then, the lots would be counted privately by the philosophers to figure what the public would like. They would then MAYBE take that into consideration as the philosophers voted who they would best represent the society.

Yeah, i know, sounds like the American electoral college.

Plato also wanted a country always ready for war, and to be selective of who was on the armed forces. He wanted strong and intelligent men AND women in the army. He wanted them to bunk together, and he most especially wanted them to shower together to encourage mating and furthering a strong defense.

For everyone and everything else, lets were to be cast to make decisions. Such as wether certain people could get married and what not. the lots were then pulled off and in secret all lots of the people who were stupid, invalid, etc... were removed from the barrel. then lots would be cast. It was his way of making the public feel as if they had a say so, yet they were really being controlled by the lots and votes.

Perhaps one is able to view this "emotional button" as a social control - pressed by those who want to sway the collective towards a certain ideal? I find that I also am rare to use the word justice for the same reason, but it is also for that reason that I am trying to delve into what it actually means to be 'just' or invoke justice.

There are many ways of controlling people. Voting is one way. Even Stalin (who I think is a dick head) said that American power lies solely in the hands of those who count the votes. So of course using the idea of justice is a form of control. What did W. bush say? "they hate us because of our freedom." to jump into this decade long war? "Sadam wanted to kill my daddy!" even though Sadam couldnt even come CLOSE to doing that, it was all calls for justice even though the terrorists were mostly Saudi Arabians.

Perhaps the ideal society is what is made from the ideals of those who create it. So, let's assume this is true and create our own, ideal society. As an individual who adheres to anarchism - is there justice within said community? Is justice necessary for a society which has no order, complete randomness, complete individuality in terms of opinion?

An ideal society is made from the ideals of those who created it? LOL, yeah. The words seem to flow and connect very well..LOL...but it is only ideal to those who created it. As time goes by ideals change.

Anarchism in and of itself is rarely used to make a society. Anarchism in and of itself is just anti-authoritarianism. They usually attach ideologies to it. I like Anarcho-syndicalism. Anarcho socialism is fine as well. You can basically call it left wing civil libertarianism. Justice in an anarcho society? Well, it depends on what they ideology attached is about. Anarcho socialists and syndicates consider justice to be equal reward for all members of society. We are in it together, and we all get to share the rewards. Justice to them (and me pretty much) is tearing the fucking banks down and telling the bankers to get a productive job. Kicking the theives in wallstreet out on their asses and tell them to get a productive job. Make all land common ownership. Tell the top 1% they no longer own 40% of America and to get the fuck out and find some productive work instead of being a fucking leech of the people.

Thats for starters.

Well, of course many people will call me a theif. Some may even call for my long term inprisonment and possible execution. Some may even call me a hater of America and even treasonous. They will claim that I would cause a great injustice to the country, the bankers, the paper shufflers, the fucking percentage crunchers and those fucking stock swindlers. "they earned it fair and square and you are suggesting mass theivery".

I argue they fucking played the system, bribed our politicians, stole our welfare and retirement, set the rules and stole as much as they could from honest hard working families and then even went so far as to conspire to pay those hard workers less money for more hours... Returning that wealth to the citizens would be a great justice, and I would celebrate in the streets when that day comes.

Which side is inherently correct?

Perhaps a "free-for-all" is the government for humanity. Does justice have a place in this form of government?

That is currently what is happening world wide. Every country is different. Even in America each state is different, and even towns are run different. People get tired of it and change it, violent or not. Some get invaded, etc...etc...ergo Absurdity...in a circular motion.

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Not giving you no shit I didn't give myself in the past, Rev. I'd get an idea in my head, it looks good from all angles, like I'm tolerant and enlightened; then I'd consider a contrast and go... that ain't possible! And I hadda climb into that skull, slap some sense into more than a few concepts.

Thats because yer a smart fellow. Im a deep thinker just like you my brother.