RE: Question about meaning and perception of reality from a theist.
January 6, 2012 at 5:32 pm
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2012 at 5:35 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
Quote:1)All of reality is experienced through consciousness.FAIL! Copper experiences oxidation through time exposed to oxygen. Neither Copper or oxygen have a consciousness.
Quote:2)THEREFORE: If you believe in reality you must believe consciousness is real.FAIL! The conclusion might be logical, but it was based on a faulty premise on #1
Quote:3)Things that are real must exist apart from our observation of or ideas about what they are.FAIL! There is no way you can conclusively prove this to be 100% true.
Quote:4)THEREFORE: If consciousness is real it must exist apart from sciences observation of or ideas about it.FAIL! Science is not sentient, therefore science cannot have ideas or observations. Science is a tool, a method.
Quote:5)The only things science believes exists apart from it's observation or ideas about are universal constants.FAIL! Science is not a sentient being, therefore science is unable to believe in anything. Science is a method, not a being.
Quote:6)THEREFORE: If consciousness is real science believes it is a universal constant.FAIL! Science is incapable of beliefs or thoughts. Science is a method, not a being.
Quote:7)Universal constants are believed to be responsible for the creaton of the universe and everything within it.FAIL! Some constants, such as the speed of light, could not exist BEFORE the existence of mater.
Quote:8)THEREFORE: if consciousness is real it is responsible for the creation of the universe and everything within it.FAIL! Things can and do come about without conscious design. Sand dunes form by the wind. Neither sand or the wind is conscious, yet the sand dunes form pyramid and cone shapes, giving the illusion to humanity that they are "designed", but in reality are merely properties of their interactions.
Quote:9)If consciousness is responsible for the creation of the universe and everything within it, it could be called "God"FAIL! Scientists have shown more thn one way for the universe to come about without intelligent design. It is also obvious that many, MANY things come about without "intelligent creation". Crystals form. Stalagtites form. So many things are obviously existing without a "conscious creator" to make or guide them.
Quote:10)THEREFORE: If you believe in reality you must necessarily believe in "God".FAIL! You said in #9 that it "could be called god". Now you say you MUST necessarily believe in God. If a god exists, then belief really isnt necessary. It would be obvious like "this red apple is red" obvious. It would be obvious like "This water is wet" obvious and would not need twisting of words to try to prove. It would be there. You could obviously point out god and it would be obvious.
