RE: Question about meaning and perception of reality from a theist.
January 7, 2012 at 11:50 am
(This post was last modified: January 7, 2012 at 11:59 am by reverendjeremiah.)
Quote:Jerahmiah. We experience copper oxidation. The copper doesn't experience anything... The copper is not conscious, at least as far as we can tell.Bullcrap. the copper atoms very much experience a change through oxidation that is recorded in its properties. Copper atoms that experience oxidation are forever changed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything you stated Jeremaih you have experienced through consciousness. To believe that reality exists apart from your conscious experience of it is to believe that consious experience is actual reality. in order to believe that reality exists as we perceive it to apart from our consciousness requires the assumption that consciousness is real. if consciousness is real... there is nothing you can say to negate my argument (I don't think). Until you can show me an instance of reality existing without using conscious observation your statements are all the same.
The fact that you deny this goes against your entire argument that reality is independent from consciousness. You are suggesting that the oxidation doesnt REALLY happen unless someone is conscious enough to understand that this is in fact oxidation..
You might as well argue that a tree doesnt make a sound if it falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it. In reality that tree is experiencing its own death. the fall is recorded in the tree by the damage caused to it, and those who are smart enough can gather that recorded information through observation and conclude the tree fell over and got damaged and is either dead or dying.
You might as well say that media storage devices do not exist either, as everytime you save something to your computer you are placing information upon the disk. The disk experiences a physical change which is recorded in its very self. the disk is forever changed from what it used to be before you saved something onto it. The disk also does not have a consciousness.
If I take a bat to a broken printer, then that printer will experience an open can of whoop ass from my very hand. the printer has experienced damage that has forever changed it in that given moment in time and is recorded in its form.
Honestly dude, you arent very good at philosophy are you?
And lets be honest. Copper and lifeless material can experience and record events. Just because it is not as seemingly sophisticated as human consciousness does not mean that these materials do not go through a change that is recorded within its properties of form.
What makes the human consciousness exist? Why it is the physical properties of the substance that brings it about; The human brain.
The human brain is basically made of these 4 basic and lifeless elements: Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. these elements form the DNA that forms your brain. Proof of life from lifelessness. And then you use that brain, made from lifeless elements, to claim that lifeless matter cannot record sensations (which is what experience means).
