(January 17, 2012 at 9:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: We likely will never again see the fundamental breaking of symmetry as happened following the big bang. That we do not observe it today is no evidence against it having occurred in the past.But there is evidence that it happened in the past.
Quote:It is weak induction at best, a sort of "No black swans" argument that because it impinges on your subjective sense of the credibility of the text you want to raise it to the level of an objective criticism. Please cite the law or rule which allows you to deduce - not infer, but deduce - that the absence of a class of events in the present implies a lack of events of that class in the past. (And no, there is no uniformitarianism which holds for all classes of events, even if you could demonstrate that it is a law.)
That wasn't my point, that if it's not happening today it could never have happened. My point was we live in a natural universe. If faith healings or speaking in tongues are a part of our universe, that is if they really happen today, we see no evidence of it. My challenge to the Christians is to either go out on that limb and state that they believe such supernatural events as described in Acts really do go on under the radar or else admit that Acts is depicting a fanciful world that is not our own.
The only other option is to suggest that "that was then, this is now". In the world of Acts (and other parts of the Bible), it is not just angels and demons that work their magic but mortals, both faithful to Jesus and blasphemers like "BarJesus". If that was then and this is now, what has changed? Have sorcerers like BarJesus gone extinct? Has Yahweh gotten sleepy? Did Jesus decide "OK, enough of that, hands off now"?
The juxtaposition between the world of Acts and our own couldn't be more stark. It is not up to me to prove that we live in a natural universe and all the woo isn't real. This is demanding that I prove a negative. It is up to the Christians to explain either why such things happened back then (and left not a trace of evidence) and not now, or, alternatively, why such supernatural events, conversations with angels and sorcery can be going on today without our notice.
At this point, the ball is in the Christians' court.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
