(January 18, 2012 at 1:17 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:(January 17, 2012 at 9:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: We likely will never again see the fundamental breaking of symmetry as happened following the big bang. That we do not observe it today is no evidence against it having occurred in the past.But there is evidence that it happened in the past.
I'm not sure the physics supports you on this point, but not being well versed on the physics myself, I'll pass on it. I'll just note in passing that a) physics is incomplete, b) the cosmological model is a mess, at best, and c) probing the various breakings of symmetry require energy levels which we are not likely to reach under laboratory conditions for a long time; until then, it's at best, one explanation of the data.
(January 18, 2012 at 1:17 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:(January 17, 2012 at 9:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: It is weak induction at best, a sort of "No black swans" argument that because it impinges on your subjective sense of the credibility of the text you want to raise it to the level of an objective criticism.
That wasn't my point, that if it's not happening today it could never have happened. My point was we live in a natural universe.
If this was your point, then you've lost round one. The Christian can simply assert that we do not live in a naturalistic universe (perhaps cosmos would be a better term), and you're left proving a negative to prosecute your case. Good luck with that.
(January 18, 2012 at 1:17 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: The only other option is to suggest that "that was then, this is now". In the world of Acts (and other parts of the Bible), it is not just angels and demons that work their magic but mortals, both faithful to Jesus and blasphemers like "BarJesus". If that was then and this is now, what has changed? Have sorcerers like BarJesus gone extinct? Has Yahweh gotten sleepy? Did Jesus decide "OK, enough of that, hands off now"?
And what if he has? This is a point that trips up both Christians and non-Christians alike. A miracle by definition is a suspension of the ordinary course of events caused by God. If you can't demonstrate that God has no possible reason for the change in affairs, you're left with nothing but a silly look on your face.
"God is mysterious." QED. Cue the fat lady.