(February 4, 2012 at 2:40 am)brotherlylove Wrote: I'll throw out scientific evidence to start. It is the view of modern science that the Universe had a beginning and that time space matter and energy are in fact finite.
Actually, it is the view of modern science to consider the big-bang as a point of reference from which measurements are made because we have no knowledge of any point of reference prior to that. That does not mean there universe did not exist then in another form.
Further, the finite size of the universe only applies to the "observable" universe. No current scientist would state that the universe is finite for certain.
(February 4, 2012 at 2:40 am)brotherlylove Wrote: Why do you believe this is self-refuting?
It is self-refuting because "beginning" means "The point in time or space at which something starts."
To say that time started within some point in time or that space started within some point in space is ridiculous.
The beginning scientists refer to is not the actual beginning but merely a point of reference.
