RE: urge to pray - advice/help
February 13, 2012 at 1:09 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm by genkaus.)
(February 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: Remember these words?: "Et tu, brute?" The most dangerous enemies are those you don't know are enemies. That is so obvious that to argue against it shows your desperation in trying to hold on to your illegitimate premise.
And this is a perfect example of an underestimated enemy - not unknown enemy. Brutus swore loyalty to Caesar, but his actions always spoke otherwise. In the civil war between Pompey and Caesar, Brutus supported Pompey and then came running back once Caesar won. He was married to Porcia, daughter of Cato the Younger, who was a supporter of Pompey and a man who Caesar hunted down through Africa.
Further, Brutus did not act alone, neither was he the one to strike the first blow. There were many involved in the assassination, many whom Caesar would have been careful of, had he not under-estimated any of them or over-estimated his own position. Clearly, he knew enough to know, and yet he underestimated his enemies.
(February 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: I wouldn't have thought this was clever even when I believed Christianity was untrue.
Its not clever, it is the truth. And that fact that you cannot provide a single argument against it is the proof of its truth.
(February 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: It has a bearing on reality, it is backed up by scripture and my own experience. I also have 2000 years of history and 2 billion people who affirm my belief. You could say flying unicorns from mars are deceiving me but you don't have any grounds for saying it, and it isn't exactly a persausive argument when you are contending for things you don't actually believe yourself.
Flying unicorns from mars aren't deceiving you. Satan is deceiving you, using the bible. And you are allowing yourself to be deceived. God will not forgive you for that. But it is not too late. Repent and come back to the path of rationality.
(February 13, 2012 at 12:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: What I said was that Satan is the greatest possible deceiver, and that the best position to deceive from is one where you are unknown to all. As the father of lies, the deception is everything that is not of the truth. For instance, you attempted to obfuscate the agrument by changing deceiver to deception.
The best position to deceive from is certainly not the unknown. Think about it. Who is more likely to be able to deceive you. Someone you don't know? Ofcourse not. You'll be careful not to take his words at their face value. Someone you know and trust? There it is.
If Satan always remained unknown or always told lies, no one would believe him - thereby defeating his own purpose. The best option for him is to put up a trustworthy front - such a Jesus Christ.
By the way, before you accuse me of obfuscation, look at your own words -
Quote:The greatest possibility of deception in every possible world is to be completely unknown.
(February 13, 2012 at 12:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: If no one knows he exists, he doesn't need to deceive anyone about himself. His deception is to lead people away from God. Satan deceives by manipulating human beings to spread his lies. He does this spiritually, by either influencing, oppressing or outright possessing, through his army of fallen angels. He has the most freedom to do this when no one knows he is doing it.
Just by influencing, oppressing and possessing. Those are such limited options. And as soon as he does any of those things, he's going to become known. People aren't stupid enough to be influenced, oppressed or possessed without asking who is doing the influencing, oppressing or possessing.
No. Satan's strategy is similar to that favored by the great emperor Palpatine - better known as Darth Sidious. On one hand, he presents himself as this ominous, unknown threat - threatening people with influence, oppression and possession - and trying to seduce them to the dark side. On the other hand, he presents himself as the leader of the opposite side - Chancellor Palpatine (in this case Jesus Christ)- and tells people that doing things his way would help them resist stand against the threat. Its the classic "heads I win, tails you lose" scenario.
