RE: urge to pray - advice/help
February 13, 2012 at 11:51 pm
(This post was last modified: February 14, 2012 at 12:10 am by genkaus.)
(February 13, 2012 at 6:10 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Why would he come out portrayed, by all accounts, as a deceiver? If you deceive, that means you have something to hide. If Satan was more powerful than God, or if God didn't exist, Satan would have no reason to deceive or fabricate a Bible. He'd rule the earth with an iron fist, and we'd know about it, and we couldn't do anything about it. What's more, some people might actually view him as a good god and worship him--exactly what he desires.
I came in the middle of this. Do you, genkaus, believe Satan exists? If not, why explain to brotherlylove how he is deceived by Satan? You're basically saying no spirits exist, but if they did only Satan would exist and not God; that, if anyone exists, it is the one in the background of the Bible with no favorable evidence instead of the clearest one. That is the opposite of scientific. It sounds more like you're keeping your bases covered by saying, "If I'm not right, you're not right either."
Did you not read the disclaimer? All arguments here are made under the assumption that god and Satan are real. Any resemblance to my actual beliefs is non-existent.
(February 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: You don't put a potential enemy in charge of your entire power base. The quote "Even you, Brutus?" reveals that Caeser was betrayed unknowingly. Again, you show your desperation; the quote itself is the quintessential illustration of betrayal by your closest friend (an unknown enemy).
You do know that the actual Caesar never said that? That was a part of dramatization by Shakespeare, as was his very close and personal friendship with Brutus. Caesar was a smart and politically savvy dictator, using offers of power and bribes to neutralize any potential enemies, while firmly keeping the people on his side. He did know that he had a lot of potential enemies in the senate, including Brutus, he just underestimated them. Consider the contrasting position of Mark Antony, a truly trusted and loyal friend, whom Caesar gave no great of power since he had no need to buy Antony's loyalty.
(February 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: The problem here is that you don't actually have an argument because it is built on a false pretense:
And here is the false pretense; that Satan needed to reveal himself to act, which is patently false. Satan is a spirit, he doesn't need to reveal himself to act. He is freest to act when there is no revelation of his existence.
You are deluding yourself if you think that people won't be able to deduce his existence by his actions. People are very good at that - deducing the existence of things that aren't revealed directly. To act while keeping those actions hidden from people would severely limit his range. He would not be able to act in any obvious ways like bringing about global flood, showering cities with meteors or bringing back the dead. But by pretending half of his actions are his own and the other half god's he can act much more freely.
(February 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: The definition of being deceived is not to know you are deceived.
Like you don't know that you were deceived by Satan into believing in Christianity.
(February 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: Without God to open your eyes to it, you will be unaware of any deception.
God is not going to open your eyes for you. He gave you a rational mind for a reason - for you to figure stuff like this out for yourself. You have the tools necessary to figure out any deception. If you still can't, you are on your own.
