(April 13, 2009 at 5:39 am)padraic Wrote:Of course that's not arrogant. Then it would be arrogant to deny the schizophrenic that the voices they might hear in their heads are genuine. It all comes down to verifiability of these claims from other sources. It would be arrogant if we had clear indications that these talks with god really yield new information. After hundreds of years of these claims there has not been one such verified event. The only conclusion can be that the arrogance is on the side of the believer that is making these unverifiable claims. It is not arrogant to demand verification, it is arrogant to claim without substantiation. Requiring verification is not arrogance, it is a sensible epistemological approach that is adopted by the scientific method. If we drop this criterion you will have to believe all the Derek Ogilvies, the schizophrenic, the alien abductees, 9/11 truthers, the thieves and conjurers that roam the planet, on their word alone.Quote:However, clearly this issue comes up in atheist/theist discussion, and is used as a corroboration of theist beliefs. Many, admittedly not all, atheists take the position of dismissing religious experience as delusion, and this is the position I am stating is weak.
Agreed, imo,as a general proposition that position is both intellelectually arrogant and ignorant.
The circumstantial evidence is not in favour of genuine religious experience. Never a prediction from it has been tested to hold, quite the contrary, numerous predictions about the end of the world revealed in such a way were contradicted by actual facts. Never essential new knowledge about nature or diseases has been revealed this way. Never these alleged conversations with god have yielded any substantial information that could not have known otherwise.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0