RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2012 at 12:22 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(March 11, 2012 at 11:49 am)whateverist Wrote: Absolutely. I can never understand why some people seem to think their thoughts do not count as free will. If you are free to realize just how deterministic the world and everything in it including yourself must be, then you must believe you have some degree of free will. If you realize your thoughts are just as determined, why bother to express them?
If I am asked to believe that you have some awareness that is free and but that doesn't count toward free will, then there really is no reason to continue the conversation. It's just to sad to realize you're trapped in there, knowing better, but constrained to watch the words flow out your mouth. Good luck.
The free will argument always seems to play to the trap of "what is preferable".
It may be preferable to believe that you are the sole reason for the actions and things you do, but it does not necessarily mean its true, and is not an argument in favour of free will.
Not withstanding, that the illusion of free will is so powerful, due to our inability to comprehend even a millionth of the factors involved in our choices, decisions and thoughts.
We can throw in factors which cause the universe to be unpredictable, that does not remove the fact there is a causation for your conscious thoughts, and random chance does not support free will, merely unpredictability.
To put my point into a well known phrase normally attributed to technology, any sufficiently complicated system that defies our abilities to describe, will appear to be magic. Or in this case, free will.
To answer your query in regards to expression of these views, it all comes down to the powerful illusion of free will. Whilst I recognise (from my point of view naturally) that my actions are determined by billions of little causations, it creates enough of an illusion of free will to express the views that these causations lead to. Certainly enough illusion for it not to bother me beyond a philosophical discussion about it.
Its not a pleasant thought, but as I said, preferable =/= true
Just to offer a thought experiment. When do you obtain free will over the atoms in your body? Between your conception and adulthood there is a point where there is no free will and *ping* free will. The nature of the discussion is such that there is no grey area between free will, and the lack of it.
In short, when did your decision-making process inject itself into the middle of natural, causal interactions that were taking place before you were a twinkle in the milkmans eye? To me, the answer is never. Nothing changed in the state of the universe. You are in control of exactly the same amount of control you had over the universe you had before you were born.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
