RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2012 at 4:08 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(March 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm)genkaus Wrote: More like this is the implied viewpoint in most of the free-will- determinism discussions I've seen.
Simply put, most of these discussions seem to boil down to one simple question - am I the author of my actions? Proponents of determinism seem to argue that it is your genetic make-up, combined with your experiences, conditioning etc that is the author, thereby implying that "you" are something other than that.
Genetics is only a very tiny part of the equation, I wouldn't highlight it as much as that. I don't see the implications either, however, I freely admit, my views are based more upon my own thoughts rather than bodies of literature, so I am likely to be missing out on a lot of prior thinking.
Frankly, I think these discussions boil down to an even simpler question - can I deal with the consequences of being determined, if not, for sake of sanity, I must invent a non-naturalistic reason for my actions.
More to the point, whilst we are the author of our actions, is it possible to author them in any other way. Its untestable sadly, but I my prediliction is that no, we are not. Fortunately our brains are capable of create grand illusions to help us cope with day to day life. In many ways free will shares a lot with religion.
(March 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm)genkaus Wrote: How is it an "illusion" if it actually exists? Not exists as in a physical existence, but exists as in a mechanism by which we are able to choose our actions.
It does not exist. However, you as a human, lack even a millionth of the ability to comprehend and calculate the factors which come into play in every facial tick, and movement you make.
An inability to factor in the complexities merely makes it appear 'magic'. Thus illusion.
(March 12, 2012 at 3:17 pm)genkaus Wrote: Again, I disagree. I think we can choose change our will.
Simply impossible to prove either way, which does tend to make the discussion pointless, but otherwise a fun stretch of the mind.
One thing I would say however, is that the illusion of free will is such, that it is indistinguishable from the real thing.
Our mind can be changed, but only by and external or independent internal force changing the causations. In another words, "you" are not the author of your actions, unless we define "you" as a product of your electrochemical memories and a million other factors that cause your decisions. But that simply indicates an illusion that you can choose an action.
For instance, a thought experiment I've read is that you can travel back in time and meet 6 year old hitler. You may strangle the child to guarantee he doesn't grow up, or provide a package to his parents which highlights the results of his current course in history.
People often make the mistake that a determinist believes Hitler can't change and therefore must strangle the child, but I would posit that introducing the package changes the antecedents to Hitlers actions, and therefore changes the factors behind his decisions. My position is that each individual moment is reliant on our electrochemical memories and state and Hitler in this case, if given a different childhood where his parents are in full knowledge of the immoral actions he will commit as an adult will immeasurably change the makeup of memory and experience that causes Hitler to commit them.
In another words, the illusion of Hitlers freewill is such the causations of his life can be changed, but his decisions as a result of the current causations, cannot.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm