The Magic of Atheism?

[genkaus]

I suppose I should start some kind of thread to see how things will go. Here's something that bothers me.

There is the dimension of space, it’s three dimensional, and then there is the dimension of time. But then there are the forces of nature: gravity, electromagnetism, the weak and strong interaction forces.

On the track, so far.

There’s only two ways to look at this. One is atheistic and suggests that for no reason at all the entire universe popped into existence out of nothing with these particular properties in place for no reason. The only problem with that is that these four fundamental forces were needed before the universe existed. They were needed for the universe to have ever come into existence to begin with. They had to exist prior to it.

And... off the rails.

Firstly, no atheist claims that. Theists do. Theists are the one who claim that the universe popped into existence form nothing. You do understand what "creation ex nihilo" means, right?

Secondly, those fundamental forces are properties of the physical universe. Explain how it could possibly exist prior to that?

Atheists would have us return to ignorance.

Acknowledged ignorance is better than false knowledge,

They would say that this is simply unknowable, and it’s unknowable because God can’t possibly exist, even though the universe and its fundamental forces are inconceivable apart from an intelligent designer bringing it into existence.

Stop projecting. Just because you theists think that you cannot fully comprehend god, don't think we say that same about anything. Origins of the universe are not unknowable, simply unknown. Acceptance of that ignorance is what would lead us to knowledge.

If God is not there, then the universe is magic. It came into existence without the fundamental forces in place, either separately or as a grand unified force. The forces would have had to come after—even though they were needed before. That's magical thinking.

Theists who understand even a little about cosmology are forced to believe in God, because that is the only non-magical explanation. A Divine Designer who existed prior to the universe is simply more plausible than the alternative.

That's my take on things--unless you know a better way.

Hold on.



So, making something out of nothing with everything in place is "not magic" and more plausible? This needs one more.