The Magic of Atheism?

[Eyem4Christ]

Couple of things. These arguments will stick around as long as people continue to be decieved by their circular and unfounded logic. Also, just because people believe them doesn't make them true. It's the old belief from popular opinion fallacy and I'm going to assume we are at least able to agree that arguing as such is not sound. The history of the human race is practically point for point (up until people discovered science) people "getting shit dead wrong." as Bill Maher says.

In The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ it says this:

Then Jesus began to teach about those who claim to be religious saying, “A tree is known by the fruit that it bears; if the tree is bad, the fruit will be bad; if good, then the fruit will be good. (VGJC 21:27)

So, what good has atheism ever brought? Most if not all of the founding fathers of science were religious men. What benefit is there to atheism? We have more technology today than we know what to do with, and the engineering technology of the future will have absolutely nothing to do with anyone’s religious beliefs. You can make a smaller computer, a cloned organ, whatever, regardless of what you believe religiously, so what value is atheism? I would say there is no good fruit on that tree. Atheism is just another religious belief.

If one believes that an uncaused thing can exist (i.e. god) then why can't the universe exist as an uncaused thing?

Because everything we see in the physical universe is contingent. And this whole the-universe-can-be-uncaused-too BS is new to atheism. I’ve only been hearing it in the last decade or so. It’s not a logical position. It’s magical thinking. The theory of the big bang refutes it; for hundreds of years before that philosophers disputed it logically; there simply is no way the physical universe could exist eternally. And if one takes the time to read the current atheist cosmology books, the speculations born of the utter desperation to escape the God-cause, are so fantastical that they just smack of sad defeat.

If all things that exist require a cause then God must have been caused to come into existence by some other force and then we get the infinite regress.

That’s the whole point of God. That God is eternal. That’s the whole argument. Something has to be eternal; it can’t be the physical universe, and that something has to have intelligence. That’s the whole argument.

Also if believing that something always existed is silly, then I would take a hard look at the nature of your own Christian beliefs because it appears that is EXACTLY what Christians believe about god. Plus it's only silly when it contradicts what people want to believe about the universe.

I’m not a Christian. I am a Veridican. My whole religion can be summed up in one sentence: A Veridican follows the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s it. I will not defend Christianity or the Christian Church, and if your atheism is based on a rebellion against Christianity, then my friend, you look like an idiot who takes pleasure in winning a chess game against a retard. (I say that for effect. I can tell you’re no idiot.).

Next, lets not forget something. WE are appealing to science. You are appealing to the supernatural for the cause and structure of the universe. This is classic christian spin of the issue.

What if science is not the proper method for determining things outside of the physical universe? Then we have to think in a different way, right? Love is not something that can be studied appropriately with science, nor is Justice or beauty, right? So why don’t you admit that science has its limitations? Great for inventing nuclear power; bad for answering how the universe began.

Lastly, I heard you criticize someone for talking quantum physics. Look, man, we are talking about the universe and you asked questions that quantum physics has some very plausible answers to. Particularly the fact that at high energy levels matter can come into existence apparently ex nihilo. This is the problem though many Christians I know only read the pseudo-science that apologists construct to refute the claims of valid, mainstream science. The same science that makes a cell phone work gave use evidence for the Big Bang.

There are lots of observations made of sub-atomic particles that we just can’t seem to figure out. We make up theories to do so. But those theories start becoming even more bizarre than the observations. Dark matter, dark energy, string theory, multiverses. And we don’t have to go to quantum mechanics for that; we still have no idea how one body of mass attracts another body of mass across the vacuum of space. So, we just accept gravity for what it is. We cannot understand how a person can have a dream and then see the elements of that dream upon waking (precognition). It happens all the time; it’s been happening forever, but all we can do from a scientific perspective is pretend it doesn’t happen.

Quantum theories beyond the standard model, are a lot like the Bible: You can find anything you are looking for in them. But logic is not defeated. It may appear something pops in and out of existence for no reason, but we know intuitively that’s not really possible.

This is the last I will say because reading back through the arguments, I realize that I may be wasting my time...

And I may be wasting my time, but it’s a labor of love. Don’t try to end your argument with academic bullying. Believe me, I’m immune to that.