The Magic of Atheism?

[Mister Agenda]

I suppose I should start some kind of thread to see how things will go. Here's something that bothers me.

There is the dimension of space, it’s three dimensional, and then there is the dimension of time. But then there are the forces of nature: gravity, electromagnetism, the weak and strong interaction forces.

There are things to quibble about there, but okay.

There’s only two ways to look at this.

Does anyone ever say this who is NOT setting up a false dichotomy?

One is atheistic and suggests that for no reason at all the entire universe popped into existence out of nothing with these particular properties in place for no reason.

I know you guys like to THINK that's what we think, but it isn't. We don't know the reason and we don't know it was nothing. And anyone who says they DO know is lying.

The only problem with that is that these four fundamental forces were needed before the universe existed. They were needed for the universe to have ever come into existence to begin with. They had to exist prior to it.

Evidence?

Atheists would have us return to ignorance. They would say that this is simply unknowable, and it’s unknowable because God can’t possibly exist, even though the universe and its fundamental forces are inconceivable apart from an intelligent designer bringing it into existence.

It's unknown because there is no way to know it at this time, whether God exists or not. And news flash: it's very easy to prove that it's not inconceivable. I think that word doesn't mean what you think it does.

If God is not there, then the universe is magic.

If you re-define 'magic' to mean 'natural processes' I suppose.

It came into existence without the fundamental forces in place, either separately or as a grand unified force.

How do you know this?

The forces would have had to come after—even though they were needed before.

Needed for what before? Why couldn't space, time, and the fundamental forces have begun simultaneously? Why couldn't the fundamental forces have resulted from space time expansion?

That's magical thinking.

Another term that doesn't mean what you think it does.

Theists who understand even a little about cosmology are forced to believe in God, because that is the only non-magical explanation.

That makes exactly as much sense as 'atheists who understand even a little about cosmology are forced to dismiss God as having explanatory power, because God is a magical explanation.

A Divine Designer who existed prior to the universe is simply more plausible than the alternative.

More plausible to YOU. Mere assertion, and dismissed as such.

That's my take on things--unless you know a better way.

A better way: ask us what we think instead of telling us what we think.