Can't help but notice most of the theists gave this one a wide birth. Determinism really sticks a nail in the gift of free will. To freely choose to follow Jesus Christ hits a brick wall if free will is illusionary. The concept of human evil becomes irrelevant, and quite frankly, the basis of the religion with it.
As long as we can agree that free will means that you could have acted differently, then the burden of proof lies squarely with those who claim otherwise, since we need little convincing the rest of the universe broadly determined.
While we can define free will in different ways, its really "free will" apologetics saving face to preserve their sense of autonomy.
Part of this is the implications for morality, as equally illusionary which is a fearful idea. However, it does not remove the requirement to remove harmful aspects of our society and equally provide deterrent or stimuli for others. Our enjoyment of life, for most of us, relies on the maintenance of social order.
Seeing as few in this thread are actually proposing utter free will, I'd be interested in hearing peoples views on the implications for morality and justice.
I would propose that the concept of retribution would by necessity need to removed as a factor in considering punishment or rehabilitation, but paired with the fact that like free will, the requirement for retribution is deeply ingrained in us, that acceptance of determinism, while less satisfying, results in a fairer more empathetic approach to society, identifying causes of anti-social behaviour, and apply rectification, rather than a focus on the individual themselves.
As long as we can agree that free will means that you could have acted differently, then the burden of proof lies squarely with those who claim otherwise, since we need little convincing the rest of the universe broadly determined.
While we can define free will in different ways, its really "free will" apologetics saving face to preserve their sense of autonomy.
Part of this is the implications for morality, as equally illusionary which is a fearful idea. However, it does not remove the requirement to remove harmful aspects of our society and equally provide deterrent or stimuli for others. Our enjoyment of life, for most of us, relies on the maintenance of social order.
Seeing as few in this thread are actually proposing utter free will, I'd be interested in hearing peoples views on the implications for morality and justice.
I would propose that the concept of retribution would by necessity need to removed as a factor in considering punishment or rehabilitation, but paired with the fact that like free will, the requirement for retribution is deeply ingrained in us, that acceptance of determinism, while less satisfying, results in a fairer more empathetic approach to society, identifying causes of anti-social behaviour, and apply rectification, rather than a focus on the individual themselves.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
