RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2012 at 1:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Feel free to let words fall from your lips in service of magic all day long. But don't be surprised that I find it less than impressive, and completely unconvincing as a justification for bullshit that has a demonstrable counterpart here in the real world. Don't be surprised when I gently point out that your favorite fairy tale won't receive special consideration on any point, any issue. Lastly, don't be surprised if I tell you when I find something you've said to be completely disgusting, or absolute bullshit (especially when it comes to reading my fucking mind, or describing the specifics of my emotional experience here in this life along lines that correspond to whatever ghost story you're peddling).
"This is wrong everywhere else, but here, where it matters to me, and because my myth says so, it's okay. Not only is it okay, it is perhaps the greatest good simply because it is a part of my myth. A myth that I maintain is the absolute standard for what is or is not good (though I am incapable of demonstrating that this is the case). But only in this special case, anywhere else this is ridiculous, and so I would like to begin by defining my way out of it entirely" doesn't cut it for me. I don't think that it shouldn't cut it for you either, but opinions are like assholes. That's not even fuzzy thinking, that's willfully mindfucking yourself.
Put yourself into the shoes of a god, forget everything you've ever heard about other gods. I don't want to hear what any other god than CRod would do. Do you figure that you would set this system up to achieve the stated end? Is this the best solution that you could come up with? I don't want to hear about my pride, I don't want to hear about my ego, I don't give a shit whether or not you like me or how many things you can find to be condescending about. This is my gripe with christianity specifically. This single issue would prevent me from being a christian even if god himself showed up on my front doorstep and provided a convincing demonstration of his divinity. The idea of vicarious salvation, to me, is one of the shittiest ideas we've ever had. It strikes at the very core of what I consider to be the foundation of common decency. A willingness to accept responsibility for your actions and then take steps to redress grievances caused by those actions without relying on a proxy to accomplish this for you. A willingness to accept responsibility for your actions without even considering the thought of shifting the blame or burden onto another. Not in some other-world, not in some after-life, in this world and this life, no magic required. Now let's say you've thought about it, and figure that yeah, you would, seems like a good idea. Presumably some sort of miracle would be required to accomplish this, but if we're invoking miracles...abracadabra and a hand gesture, then why the theatrics of blood atonement? Why a living effigy? Why not just set fire to a wicker man? Why set fire to anything at all, it's the hand gesture and the magic words that do the heavy lifting anyway. While we're at it....why go through any of this at all? What, precisely, is being accomplished? Are you so desperate for company, or so blinded by love for your "children" that you cannot realize and accept that some of them may have done something completely unforgivable, that nothing can take this away? That perhaps, if you wish to fill a paradise with good people, you're going to have to exclude at least a few people. Not because they don't accept your "gifts", not because the proper thoughts and reverence weren't floating around in their heads, but for their actions, for what they had done and failed to rectify. Maybe, and this is just my opinion, for sitting around waiting for another to make it right, or even accepting that another could (or should). If there are acts which you cannot remedy, then maybe you just shouldn't do them, and perhaps we shouldn't be so willing to propose that even these things will be forgiven. I've seen quite a few peaceful faces headed to the execution chamber on the afternoon news. God had forgiven them, they'd found jesus. Well, if every eleventh hour plea will bear fruit then what's stopping us from doing these things in the first place? The whole bullshit narrative completely destroys the very concept it is attempting to establish. Atonement.
This isn't simply a problem of whether or not this happened. It's a problem at every level. Did this happen? Why did this happen? Who allowed this? Why would they consider this? Should we become accomplices in this? Can this be reversed? What sort of lesson is to be drawn from this? How should we think of a being that is capable and willing to do this? Is there a less magical explanation for this narrative? Are there better points to be made by this mundane explanation? I'd call that a dilemma for theists, but only if you're willing to address it. You could just evade it entirely......maybe tell me more about some part of myself you've imagined and find distasteful?
"This is wrong everywhere else, but here, where it matters to me, and because my myth says so, it's okay. Not only is it okay, it is perhaps the greatest good simply because it is a part of my myth. A myth that I maintain is the absolute standard for what is or is not good (though I am incapable of demonstrating that this is the case). But only in this special case, anywhere else this is ridiculous, and so I would like to begin by defining my way out of it entirely" doesn't cut it for me. I don't think that it shouldn't cut it for you either, but opinions are like assholes. That's not even fuzzy thinking, that's willfully mindfucking yourself.
Put yourself into the shoes of a god, forget everything you've ever heard about other gods. I don't want to hear what any other god than CRod would do. Do you figure that you would set this system up to achieve the stated end? Is this the best solution that you could come up with? I don't want to hear about my pride, I don't want to hear about my ego, I don't give a shit whether or not you like me or how many things you can find to be condescending about. This is my gripe with christianity specifically. This single issue would prevent me from being a christian even if god himself showed up on my front doorstep and provided a convincing demonstration of his divinity. The idea of vicarious salvation, to me, is one of the shittiest ideas we've ever had. It strikes at the very core of what I consider to be the foundation of common decency. A willingness to accept responsibility for your actions and then take steps to redress grievances caused by those actions without relying on a proxy to accomplish this for you. A willingness to accept responsibility for your actions without even considering the thought of shifting the blame or burden onto another. Not in some other-world, not in some after-life, in this world and this life, no magic required. Now let's say you've thought about it, and figure that yeah, you would, seems like a good idea. Presumably some sort of miracle would be required to accomplish this, but if we're invoking miracles...abracadabra and a hand gesture, then why the theatrics of blood atonement? Why a living effigy? Why not just set fire to a wicker man? Why set fire to anything at all, it's the hand gesture and the magic words that do the heavy lifting anyway. While we're at it....why go through any of this at all? What, precisely, is being accomplished? Are you so desperate for company, or so blinded by love for your "children" that you cannot realize and accept that some of them may have done something completely unforgivable, that nothing can take this away? That perhaps, if you wish to fill a paradise with good people, you're going to have to exclude at least a few people. Not because they don't accept your "gifts", not because the proper thoughts and reverence weren't floating around in their heads, but for their actions, for what they had done and failed to rectify. Maybe, and this is just my opinion, for sitting around waiting for another to make it right, or even accepting that another could (or should). If there are acts which you cannot remedy, then maybe you just shouldn't do them, and perhaps we shouldn't be so willing to propose that even these things will be forgiven. I've seen quite a few peaceful faces headed to the execution chamber on the afternoon news. God had forgiven them, they'd found jesus. Well, if every eleventh hour plea will bear fruit then what's stopping us from doing these things in the first place? The whole bullshit narrative completely destroys the very concept it is attempting to establish. Atonement.
This isn't simply a problem of whether or not this happened. It's a problem at every level. Did this happen? Why did this happen? Who allowed this? Why would they consider this? Should we become accomplices in this? Can this be reversed? What sort of lesson is to be drawn from this? How should we think of a being that is capable and willing to do this? Is there a less magical explanation for this narrative? Are there better points to be made by this mundane explanation? I'd call that a dilemma for theists, but only if you're willing to address it. You could just evade it entirely......maybe tell me more about some part of myself you've imagined and find distasteful?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
