RE: Epicurean Paradox
April 11, 2012 at 12:01 am
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2012 at 12:11 am by Drich.)
[quote='NoMoreFaith' pid='270368' dateline='1334090747']
[quote]Are you seriously cherry picking wanton out of the definition of malicious and then using a second order definition to obtain your means?[/quote]
wanton describes the situation you have place yourself in I did not so much cherry pick as identified the ques that surround your chosen way of life, and paired it with a legitmate defination for the word wanton.
[quote]Second order definitions do not equate to the primary. [/quote]Even so they still are recognized as Definitions of the word being defined.
[quote]The usage of wanton in this order, in context, "Why jeopardize your career in such a wanton way?" requires the assumption you are aware your actions jeopardies your goal[/quote]If it did It would go against the preceding definition. Read the definition again.
2. deliberate and without motive or provocation; uncalled-for; headstrong; willful:
None of which is supports your assertion of the example given.
Why Jeopardize your career in such a head strong or willful way? This speaks in no way to an assumption of anything. Head strong means stubborn. Stubborn simply means one is locked into a willful course of action. One does not have to be aware of anything other than his own will to be head strong. You are over reaching in your interpretation of the definition. Simply read what has been written on the page. You get in trouble when ever you assume an assumption is needed to interpret a simple definition.
[quote]Word games hold little interest for me. If you wish to continue to do so, I suggest we play scrabble, and not debate, because I have no interest if you continue with the move the goalpost maneuverer.[/quote]
As i said if you think a concept is too simple then perhaps you should take a deeper look. I did not move the goal post you simply have been made more aware of them and where they truly stand.
[quote]However, I am aware of your response, and it will be entirely assertion that your second order definition is correct, in which case I should point out, that you should be more careful with your words, as if you are unable to choose words which support your case, then you are unable to support debate in your corner.[/quote]This sounds like sour grapes to me. I word and phrase my initial posts to speak to simple precepts and concepts. If someone has a question then I am able to expound. Where people like you get in trouble is when you believe a simple precept is as deep as you initially perceive to be, and make assertions based on what you think you know, rather than ask questions defining the subject being discussed.
I have found (on this web site) if I put out too much information in the beginning it is lost to you all or dismissed and I just have to go back to the original post 3 to 4 times with everyone who does not get the complete precept. Why? Because you all have a closed minded approach to God and Christianity, and seem to believe that you have a complete understanding of what is being discussed no matter what it is. Which has to be corrected in order for us to move forward. Therefore i found it much easier to break everything down into little pieces and explain as we go. Which works fine until someone comes in and thinks he knows what is being discussed and feels the "goal posts" have been moved when he finds out things are not as simple as he thought they were.
[quote]As in using the secondary definition of a word plucked from the secondary definition of malicious?[/quote]Plucked because your actions demanded to be accounted for in such away. Understand whether first run definition or 10th run definition if a definition is apart of the word being defined it is a valid interpretation of the word, even if you don't like it, and it makes you orginal assessment look foolish.
[quote]On the contrary, I am open to ideas about how and why the bible exists, and I am aware of its questionably historical origins. The question is; can you step outside your assertions long enough to long back at your belief?[/quote]To whom and how?
[quote]Oh but they are. My sons and wife are pillars of my universe, and thats all I need. They are tangible, loving and I see evidence truly every day. But mythological beasts and demons? A sound mind has no need.[/quote]If this were completely true then why spend anytime refuting the myths? I do not hold Thor Anubis in any regard that is why I do not see a need to be apart of those types of discussions. You on the other hand have something compelling you to defend you way of life for the sake of your family.
Otherwise why spend so much time here?
[quote]Again, on the contrary, I merely ask for something more than dusty old myths to convince me. [/quote]Then ask God to show you some new material.
[quote]Its not a lot to ask. [/quote]Then just ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11.
[quote] I look for magic and wonder everywhere I look. I find it, regularly, but none of it supernatural.[/quote]God is the Father of the natural universe. Perhaps the reason you have not found God is because you are looking in the wrong places.
[quote][You assume the rhetorical you as a personal one. My statement of prayer matches a great many people. [/quote]Does it match the bible? (Hint- It does not) Who do you pray to? The God of the bible or "a great number of people?"
If you seek an audience with the almighty God then wouldn't it stand to reason to pray to Him as He has outlined in the bible, and not how popular culture defines prayer?
[quote]The fact that your version of prayer requires God to do nothing, does not prove that he answered them.[/quote]Please by all means, Explain to me "my method of prayer."
Show me where it requires God to do nothing.
[quote]Why would I not want comfort of those who die. Why would I not want a wonderful reason for pain and suffering that justifies every inch of it.[/quote]I did not say you wanted eternal life. I have only ever told you how to get the answers for the questions you have directly from God.
Eternal life is a whole nother matter.
[quote='Faith No More' pid='270382' dateline='1334091674']
[quote='Drich']
wow it took you a lot longer than some of the others to come up with this conclusion, but you finally got here on your own! Know that this challenge has been presented 3 seperate times and has been answered everytime with the same observation. If you want an answer then go back and re read some of the prior post. I think 2 or 3 pages back was the last one.[/quote]
I didn't come to that conclusion, you led me to it. As for the rest of this thread, I have yet to see you give a valid explanation for why god's need for people to worship is him is so great that he allows the cruelest things to happen to innocent people, but then again, I haven't been reading all of the long posts.
[/quote]
In short there are no "innocent people." All are guilty of sin. We live in a world ruled by sin therefore we are subject to the consequences of sin.
So why does God allow this to happen? Because control of this world has been given to man. It is our responsibility to mange or control all aspects of what we have been given. If you do not like how things go then it is on you and your fellow man to effect change.
[quote='Ace Otana' pid='270410' dateline='1334095568']
[[quote]I know what malicious is. In no way does it describe me.[/quote]Do you know what Wanton is?
[quote]I don't believe in god, so I don't believe in this law or will of his. Remember, I can't have any intention to go against god's will if I don't believe god even exists.[/quote]This is an example of being wanton Wanton is head strong; reckless, stubbornness. Wantonness is a defining characteristic of malicious behavior.
[quote]Yeah and you may end up being judged and sent to hell by Allah or some other god. [/quote]If the God of the bible is not the God of Heaven then I will welcome Hell.
[quote]You shouldn't state that 'I will' end up anything. You don't know jack shit. You only believe you do. It's just a belief, nothing more. One that I laugh at daily.[/quote]All of our days are numbered, will you laugh when you have no more days left?
As you can see I am willing to accept Hell if my beliefs are wrong. Can you say the same?
[quote]Are you seriously cherry picking wanton out of the definition of malicious and then using a second order definition to obtain your means?[/quote]
wanton describes the situation you have place yourself in I did not so much cherry pick as identified the ques that surround your chosen way of life, and paired it with a legitmate defination for the word wanton.
[quote]Second order definitions do not equate to the primary. [/quote]Even so they still are recognized as Definitions of the word being defined.
[quote]The usage of wanton in this order, in context, "Why jeopardize your career in such a wanton way?" requires the assumption you are aware your actions jeopardies your goal[/quote]If it did It would go against the preceding definition. Read the definition again.
2. deliberate and without motive or provocation; uncalled-for; headstrong; willful:
None of which is supports your assertion of the example given.
Why Jeopardize your career in such a head strong or willful way? This speaks in no way to an assumption of anything. Head strong means stubborn. Stubborn simply means one is locked into a willful course of action. One does not have to be aware of anything other than his own will to be head strong. You are over reaching in your interpretation of the definition. Simply read what has been written on the page. You get in trouble when ever you assume an assumption is needed to interpret a simple definition.
[quote]Word games hold little interest for me. If you wish to continue to do so, I suggest we play scrabble, and not debate, because I have no interest if you continue with the move the goalpost maneuverer.[/quote]
As i said if you think a concept is too simple then perhaps you should take a deeper look. I did not move the goal post you simply have been made more aware of them and where they truly stand.[quote]However, I am aware of your response, and it will be entirely assertion that your second order definition is correct, in which case I should point out, that you should be more careful with your words, as if you are unable to choose words which support your case, then you are unable to support debate in your corner.[/quote]This sounds like sour grapes to me. I word and phrase my initial posts to speak to simple precepts and concepts. If someone has a question then I am able to expound. Where people like you get in trouble is when you believe a simple precept is as deep as you initially perceive to be, and make assertions based on what you think you know, rather than ask questions defining the subject being discussed.
I have found (on this web site) if I put out too much information in the beginning it is lost to you all or dismissed and I just have to go back to the original post 3 to 4 times with everyone who does not get the complete precept. Why? Because you all have a closed minded approach to God and Christianity, and seem to believe that you have a complete understanding of what is being discussed no matter what it is. Which has to be corrected in order for us to move forward. Therefore i found it much easier to break everything down into little pieces and explain as we go. Which works fine until someone comes in and thinks he knows what is being discussed and feels the "goal posts" have been moved when he finds out things are not as simple as he thought they were.
[quote]As in using the secondary definition of a word plucked from the secondary definition of malicious?[/quote]Plucked because your actions demanded to be accounted for in such away. Understand whether first run definition or 10th run definition if a definition is apart of the word being defined it is a valid interpretation of the word, even if you don't like it, and it makes you orginal assessment look foolish.
[quote]On the contrary, I am open to ideas about how and why the bible exists, and I am aware of its questionably historical origins. The question is; can you step outside your assertions long enough to long back at your belief?[/quote]To whom and how?
[quote]Oh but they are. My sons and wife are pillars of my universe, and thats all I need. They are tangible, loving and I see evidence truly every day. But mythological beasts and demons? A sound mind has no need.[/quote]If this were completely true then why spend anytime refuting the myths? I do not hold Thor Anubis in any regard that is why I do not see a need to be apart of those types of discussions. You on the other hand have something compelling you to defend you way of life for the sake of your family.
Otherwise why spend so much time here?
[quote]Again, on the contrary, I merely ask for something more than dusty old myths to convince me. [/quote]Then ask God to show you some new material.
[quote]Its not a lot to ask. [/quote]Then just ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11.
[quote] I look for magic and wonder everywhere I look. I find it, regularly, but none of it supernatural.[/quote]God is the Father of the natural universe. Perhaps the reason you have not found God is because you are looking in the wrong places.
[quote][You assume the rhetorical you as a personal one. My statement of prayer matches a great many people. [/quote]Does it match the bible? (Hint- It does not) Who do you pray to? The God of the bible or "a great number of people?"
If you seek an audience with the almighty God then wouldn't it stand to reason to pray to Him as He has outlined in the bible, and not how popular culture defines prayer?
[quote]The fact that your version of prayer requires God to do nothing, does not prove that he answered them.[/quote]Please by all means, Explain to me "my method of prayer."
Show me where it requires God to do nothing.
[quote]Why would I not want comfort of those who die. Why would I not want a wonderful reason for pain and suffering that justifies every inch of it.[/quote]I did not say you wanted eternal life. I have only ever told you how to get the answers for the questions you have directly from God.
Eternal life is a whole nother matter.
[quote='Faith No More' pid='270382' dateline='1334091674']
[quote='Drich']
wow it took you a lot longer than some of the others to come up with this conclusion, but you finally got here on your own! Know that this challenge has been presented 3 seperate times and has been answered everytime with the same observation. If you want an answer then go back and re read some of the prior post. I think 2 or 3 pages back was the last one.[/quote]
I didn't come to that conclusion, you led me to it. As for the rest of this thread, I have yet to see you give a valid explanation for why god's need for people to worship is him is so great that he allows the cruelest things to happen to innocent people, but then again, I haven't been reading all of the long posts.
[/quote]
In short there are no "innocent people." All are guilty of sin. We live in a world ruled by sin therefore we are subject to the consequences of sin.
So why does God allow this to happen? Because control of this world has been given to man. It is our responsibility to mange or control all aspects of what we have been given. If you do not like how things go then it is on you and your fellow man to effect change.
[quote='Ace Otana' pid='270410' dateline='1334095568']
[[quote]I know what malicious is. In no way does it describe me.[/quote]Do you know what Wanton is?
[quote]I don't believe in god, so I don't believe in this law or will of his. Remember, I can't have any intention to go against god's will if I don't believe god even exists.[/quote]This is an example of being wanton Wanton is head strong; reckless, stubbornness. Wantonness is a defining characteristic of malicious behavior.
[quote]Yeah and you may end up being judged and sent to hell by Allah or some other god. [/quote]If the God of the bible is not the God of Heaven then I will welcome Hell.
[quote]You shouldn't state that 'I will' end up anything. You don't know jack shit. You only believe you do. It's just a belief, nothing more. One that I laugh at daily.[/quote]All of our days are numbered, will you laugh when you have no more days left?
As you can see I am willing to accept Hell if my beliefs are wrong. Can you say the same?
