Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 25, 2025, 12:40 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Epicurean Paradox
RE: Epicurean Paradox
(April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm)genkaus Wrote: Certain key factors that are overlooked in your argument.

1. We don't attribute our own meaning to the words - the words represent specific concepts. The meaning is as deep as the word assigned to it. The concept of evil is simple - it is something that is considered undesirable.

Words are ascribed to abstractions of the mind to help us communicate. If I asked you what is infinity, you could spit me off a definition, but that definition doesn't capture the full abstraction of the concept. The same is true for most words, including evil. As for your definition: "something that is considered undesirable", you've made the abstraction subjective and therefore meaningless outside of your own perceptions.

(April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm)genkaus Wrote: 2. Passing judgment about an attribute does not require you to have that attribute yourself - it only requires knowledge of what it entails. If we know what evil is, we can say what benevolence looks like, irrespective of whether we we ourselves are evil or not. Even if we are not all-knowing and all-powerful, we can say how omnipotence and omniscience would work, because not knowing everything does not mean we don't know anything.

We know what human evil is, we know what human benevolence looks like. We know nothing of the abstract concept of benevolence and evil outside of ourselves. Once again, we ascribe the words of definition to these abstractions of thought - omnipotence and omniscience - but we can't even fathom what they entail.

(April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm)genkaus Wrote: 3. As to the naturalistic processes such as death, evolution and natural selection - they can neither be evil nor good. Being evil presupposes a conscious choice - something that is not present behind those forces.

Human evil requires conscious choice - I'm not sure if this will help illustrate my idea more clearly, but if you've seen the move Avatar, their God (the energy between all things) takes no action to prevent or inhibit violence and destruction, it acts as a silent observer to the qualms of the humans and the avatars. The non-action of an able and willing God does not make them malevolent. It simply makes them non-actors.

(April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm)genkaus Wrote: 4. The standard of evil that is the basis of this paradox has been clearly established. It is the conscious causation of unnecessary suffering. This basis is also considered to be accepted by any imagined god. And it is this simple standard that damn him as malevolent or impotent.

The conscious causation of unnecessary suffering is indeed evil, as to whether God is contained within this human definition is the argument of this thread. If God really is limitless, all powerful, all knowing, and all good then I see no reason to confine it to our simple definitions which fail at even capturing our own abstractions.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 9:29 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 30, 2012 at 9:32 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - March 30, 2012 at 9:57 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 10:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by houseofcantor - March 30, 2012 at 12:29 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Welsh cake - March 30, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - March 30, 2012 at 12:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - March 30, 2012 at 2:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - March 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - March 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 12:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 4:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 5:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 11:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 1:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Welsh cake - March 31, 2012 at 8:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 3:50 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 8:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - March 31, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 6:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 9:26 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 10:45 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 10:51 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 10:58 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:07 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:39 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:47 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - April 1, 2012 at 4:33 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by houseofcantor - April 1, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 4:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2012 at 4:17 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2012 at 9:08 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 2, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 3, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Jackalope - April 3, 2012 at 3:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 4, 2012 at 3:24 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 3, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 1:02 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - April 2, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Bgood - April 2, 2012 at 10:58 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2012 at 9:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 2:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 7:43 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 4, 2012 at 11:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 4, 2012 at 7:53 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 6:37 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 9:03 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 7:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 10:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 4, 2012 at 8:46 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 9:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ashendant - April 4, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 11:29 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 4, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - April 5, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 5, 2012 at 7:00 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 6, 2012 at 1:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 8, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 8, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 8, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tempus - April 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 4:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 7:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 8:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 12:08 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - April 9, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - April 9, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 1:26 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 9, 2012 at 6:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 8:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 9, 2012 at 8:30 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 8:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - April 10, 2012 at 8:47 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 9, 2012 at 10:15 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 8:53 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 9:07 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 9:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 9:13 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 4:45 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 11, 2012 at 12:01 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 11, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 11, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 11, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - April 10, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2012 at 11:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 10, 2012 at 3:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Autumnlicious - April 11, 2012 at 4:33 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 11, 2012 at 5:16 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 11, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 10:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 14, 2012 at 12:52 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 2:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 16, 2012 at 8:27 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 16, 2012 at 5:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 16, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 17, 2012 at 2:23 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 17, 2012 at 6:02 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 17, 2012 at 7:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 18, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 8:53 am
Re: Epicurean Paradox - by fr0d0 - April 11, 2012 at 8:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 12, 2012 at 11:20 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 4:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 10:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 1:49 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 8:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 9:17 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 9:54 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:16 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 13, 2012 at 2:40 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Adjusted Sanity - April 13, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 16, 2012 at 3:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 1:56 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Reforged - April 17, 2012 at 2:18 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 17, 2012 at 2:50 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Reforged - April 17, 2012 at 2:56 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 7:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 8:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 8:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 1:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 1:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 2:03 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 9:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 11:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 18, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 11:38 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 18, 2012 at 10:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 10:54 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 18, 2012 at 6:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2012 at 11:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 11:59 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Paradox of Power.... ronedee 607 136886 October 6, 2015 at 12:17 am
Last Post: ronedee
  A strange apologetic paradox Esquilax 10 3244 February 21, 2014 at 1:16 pm
Last Post: fr0d0
  The abortion paradox Ciel_Rouge 88 32228 September 9, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Last Post: TaraJo
  Christian Paradox tackattack 127 55517 February 18, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Last Post: fr0d0



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)