Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 18, 2025, 8:19 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Epicurean Paradox
RE: Epicurean Paradox
(April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm)Perhaps Wrote: Words are ascribed to abstractions of the mind to help us communicate. If I asked you what is infinity, you could spit me off a definition, but that definition doesn't capture the full abstraction of the concept. The same is true for most words, including evil. As for your definition: "something that is considered undesirable", you've made the abstraction subjective and therefore meaningless outside of your own perceptions.

You forget that the abstractions themselves are created by the mind. Why wouldn't words ascribed to represent the abstraction not capture it fully? Further, providing a concrete definition fro a word does not make the concept subject or meaningless outside perception.

(April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm)Perhaps Wrote: We know what human evil is, we know what human benevolence looks like. We know nothing of the abstract concept of benevolence and evil outside of ourselves. Once again, we ascribe the words of definition to these abstractions of thought - omnipotence and omniscience - but we can't even fathom what they entail.

Yes, we can, since we are the ones who created those abstractions. We cannot know the concepts of benevolence and evil outside our consciousness because they do no exist outside it. To the extent they exist, they can be fathomed.

(April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm)Perhaps Wrote: Human evil requires conscious choice - I'm not sure if this will help illustrate my idea more clearly, but if you've seen the move Avatar, their God (the energy between all things) takes no action to prevent or inhibit violence and destruction, it acts as a silent observer to the qualms of the humans and the avatars. The non-action of an able and willing God does not make them malevolent. It simply makes them non-actors.

Yeah - no action - if you ignore the declaration of Jake Scully as the "chosen one" in the beginning of the movie or the directing of all creatures against humans in the climax, thereby saving the Navi's collective asses. I think that that deity definitely proved that it was both capable and willing to intervene and prevent violence and destruction when no other course was open.


(April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm)Perhaps Wrote: The conscious causation of unnecessary suffering is indeed evil, as to whether God is contained within this human definition is the argument of this thread. If God really is limitless, all powerful, all knowing, and all good then I see no reason to confine it to our simple definitions which fail at even capturing our own abstractions.

And that is your error. Firstly, our definitions do capture our abstractions. Therefore, I see no reason, apart from special pleading, for why god would not be bound by them.

Reply



Messages In This Thread
Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 9:29 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 30, 2012 at 9:32 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - March 30, 2012 at 9:57 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 10:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by houseofcantor - March 30, 2012 at 12:29 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Welsh cake - March 30, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - March 30, 2012 at 12:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - March 30, 2012 at 2:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - March 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - March 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 12:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - March 30, 2012 at 4:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 5:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - March 30, 2012 at 11:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 1:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Welsh cake - March 31, 2012 at 8:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 3:50 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 8:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - March 31, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 6:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 9:26 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 10:45 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 10:51 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 10:58 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:07 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - March 31, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:39 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:47 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tobie - April 1, 2012 at 4:33 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by houseofcantor - April 1, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 4:00 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2012 at 4:17 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2012 at 9:08 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 2, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 3, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Jackalope - April 3, 2012 at 3:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 4, 2012 at 3:24 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 3, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 1:02 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - April 2, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 2, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Bgood - April 2, 2012 at 10:58 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2012 at 9:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 2:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 7:43 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 4, 2012 at 11:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 4, 2012 at 7:53 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 6:37 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 9:03 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 7:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 4, 2012 at 10:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 4, 2012 at 8:46 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by mediamogul - April 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 9:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ashendant - April 4, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2012 at 11:29 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 4, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by thesummerqueen - April 5, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 5, 2012 at 7:00 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 6, 2012 at 1:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 8, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 8, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 8, 2012 at 9:49 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Tempus - April 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 4:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 7:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 8:23 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 8, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 12:08 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - April 9, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - April 9, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 1:26 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 9, 2012 at 6:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 9, 2012 at 8:19 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 9, 2012 at 8:30 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 8:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - April 10, 2012 at 8:47 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 9, 2012 at 10:15 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 8:53 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 9, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 9:07 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2012 at 9:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 9:13 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 10, 2012 at 4:45 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 11, 2012 at 12:01 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 11, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 11, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 11, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Nine - April 10, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Ace Otana - April 10, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by FallentoReason - April 10, 2012 at 11:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Minimalist - April 10, 2012 at 3:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Autumnlicious - April 11, 2012 at 4:33 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Faith No More - April 11, 2012 at 5:16 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 11, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 10:37 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 14, 2012 at 12:52 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 2:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 16, 2012 at 4:15 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 16, 2012 at 8:27 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 16, 2012 at 5:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 16, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 17, 2012 at 2:23 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 17, 2012 at 6:02 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 17, 2012 at 7:16 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 18, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 8:53 am
Re: Epicurean Paradox - by fr0d0 - April 11, 2012 at 8:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 12, 2012 at 11:20 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 4:20 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 12, 2012 at 10:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 1:49 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 8:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by NoMoreFaith - April 13, 2012 at 9:17 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 9:54 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:06 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:16 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Perhaps - April 13, 2012 at 2:40 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Adjusted Sanity - April 13, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 16, 2012 at 3:40 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 1:56 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Reforged - April 17, 2012 at 2:18 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 17, 2012 at 2:50 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Reforged - April 17, 2012 at 2:56 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 7:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 8:10 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 17, 2012 at 8:30 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 1:04 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 1:31 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 2:03 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 9:44 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 11:22 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 18, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 11:38 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by TheJackel - April 18, 2012 at 10:03 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 10:54 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by padraic - April 18, 2012 at 6:36 am
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2012 at 11:02 pm
RE: Epicurean Paradox - by Drich - April 18, 2012 at 11:59 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Paradox of Power.... ronedee 607 140967 October 6, 2015 at 12:17 am
Last Post: ronedee
  A strange apologetic paradox Esquilax 10 3316 February 21, 2014 at 1:16 pm
Last Post: fr0d0
  The abortion paradox Ciel_Rouge 88 32741 September 9, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Last Post: TaraJo
  Christian Paradox tackattack 127 56216 February 18, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Last Post: fr0d0



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)