(April 13, 2012 at 9:46 am)Perhaps Wrote: The original statement:
I simply believe that the conscious mind, separate from the brain mechanism, provides us with the ability to abstract and to make decisions based on whims. Our physical existence is subject to determined physics, but we have the ability to enact our own causation through the non-material aspect of our conscious.
The conscious mind is dependent on the material brain mechanism. It is separate from the material mechanism, yet still dependent.
Which means that the conscious mind must have an identity separate from the material mechanism. While its existence must be dependent on the material mechanism, its identity must be independent of it. A parallel here would be "cause and effect". While the existence of the effect is dependent upon the cause, its identity is independent of it. Here's where you have to provide the justification of how an entity can be conscious if the mechanism for consciousness is not a part of its identity.
(April 13, 2012 at 9:46 am)Perhaps Wrote: I agree that the topic of time is deep and possibly misleading to the conversation, but numbers have been argued for centuries to exist outside of the conscience. Many mathematicians and metaphysicians argue that maths have been discovered, not created by the conscious mind. Once again, the non-material conscience is dependent on the material world (if the physical world didnt' exist then neither would our consciences) but its non-material nature allows it to interact with causation in the physical realm (free will).
Exactly how does its non-material nature allow it to interact with causation while remaining independent of it - that is the question here.
(April 13, 2012 at 9:46 am)Perhaps Wrote: My opinions as they relate to non-material subjects, are simply that they exist outside of the material realm. Other than that, I couldn't be bothered to explain every way in which I can imagine them existing apart from the materialist perspective. I can't demonstrate that a non-material conscience does in fact give us free will, I can only demonstrate that I believe I do have free will.
Then your belief has no place in the discussion, does it? As you say here - you cannot demonstrate how the non-material might exist independently of the material. You cannot demonstrate how it'd work. You cannot demonstrate how it'd interact with causation, if it actually existed. Your position is unjustified by your own admission. All you can demonstrate is that you believe in free-will, which is accomplished by saying "I believe in free-will". Without justification, that is meaningless.