RE: Do you believe in free will?
April 18, 2012 at 10:17 pm
(This post was last modified: April 18, 2012 at 10:21 pm by TheJackel.)
(April 18, 2012 at 4:59 pm)Perhaps Wrote:(April 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm)genkaus Wrote: It seems like you haven't put nay thought into this at all. You are essentially putting forward a circular proposition.
1. I exist in reality.
2. Reality exists in my mind.
3. My mind exists in me.
You premise itself is illogical. You cannot hope to prove anything using this premise because proof presupposes an objective existence of reality.
You missed my first premise.
1. The mind (which gives 'me' the ability to have identity) exists in the true material world
2. The mind creates reality
3. I (the mind) exist in the reality which I create
4. Thus, because I have created it, I have free will in my reality
This would be analogous to an individual who is blind. They exist in the 'material world', yet their perception creates blackness all around them. They live within this blackness.
The real question to ask here, past the validity of free will, would be what's the fucking point? Even if I do possess free will, it doesn't change the fact that nothing matters and that their is no point. It just means that I'm responsible for what I do, but responsible to what or who? If its morally related to the other minds then there still remains no point, because when I cease to exist I won't be able to even care. Ultimately we are worthless and without purpose - that's what erks me most about my existence.
(April 17, 2012 at 1:41 pm)genkaus Wrote: Way too easy.
1. Reality is what exists independently from any ideas about it. (Tautologically true)
2. If mind creates reality then it is not independent of the mind's ideas about it.
Therefore, mind does not create reality.
You use logic (which is created by the mind) to attempt to disprove my supposition that the mind creates reality. I know you're better than that, throw me something else. What you did would be like disproving the existence of God by using the example of the Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately all your premisses fall apart literally if you had bothered to actually read my post. Your mind can not "create reality", it can only be an emergent property of reality.. You can not create that which yourself is slave to require in order to exist... All of your logic is backwards and makes no coherent sense. So let me fix your premises so you can understand where you went wrong:
Quote:1. The mind (which gives 'me' the ability to have identity) exists in the true material world
2. The mind creates reality
3. I (the mind) exist in the reality which I create
4. Thus, because I have created it, I have free will in my reality
1. There can only ever be the material world... Worlds made of nothing do not and can not exist.
2. Is impossible.. The mind only processes and interprets reality, and is an emergent property of reality itself. It's impossible to create what yourself requires to exist. Perception of reality is mostly how you react to it, and the limits and boundaries to your given sensory systems. You share the exact same reality everyone else does regardless how you perceive it, or react to it.
3. Makes about as much sense as the 4 corner time cube and is a literal self-refutation. It's about as coherent as claiming you created existence from outside existence so yourself can exist in and of existence... Umm sorry, but that is an utter fail
4. Keep dreaming!
And btw, the brain or "mind" can't do shit without complex sensory systems... Cognitive systems are highly complex, and they definitely can't exist without cause. You're kidding yourself if you think your mind creates reality. It can do no such thing.