Shit man, im a natural born killer!

[Disciple]

I accept that you see the beauty in mountains, trees, rivers, stars etc. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The real question is do you see the physics in all those things? For example, stars are not simply dots of light forming pretty patterns in the sky. They are mindbogglingly immense nuclear fusion reactors held together by their own gravity; with the obvious exception of our own familiar Sun, exactly 100% of them are so far away from our world that, barring some technological paradigm shift, they are forever beyond our reach. What's more, there are 100,000,000,000 of them in our Galaxy alone - and there are literally trillions of other galaxies out there in the Universe, with more being discovered all the time. And all of this is to give us something beautiful to look at at night?

We can indeed look at trees and other similar biological entities in the natural environment and remark on how pretty they are. What we fail to appreciate by so doing is the continuous battle for survival these things represent. "Nature red in tooth and claw" isn't just a poetic turn of phrase. An idyllic woodland scene straight off a Hallmark birthday card is Nature's equivalent of the trenches of the Somme.

My whole point is that none of these things exist simply for our aesthetic sensibilities. If the natural world suggests a god to you because you think they do, that it's all for our purposes, you're missing the bigger picture. It's like playing a piano with eighty-seven missing keys. To quote a famous philosopher, "That is why you fail."

Stimbo- Good day to you sir, To answer your question, I do indeed see the physics in all of it. Just because im a believer in god does not mean i dont believe in science. I think God is the O.G. scientist and science is his vehicle for bringing it all to existance. Also i dont believe that all this is here soley for our enjoyment. You have a great way of looking at things, how you described an idyllic woodland scene...so true.

It suggests that there is a god to me simply because of all the complexity of it. For all of it to just simply happen because it did is impossible for me to accept. Thanks for your reply brother.

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i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean.

How arrogant.

So im not going to waste my time.

Don't forget to shut the door on your way out.

Ace- thanks for the reply homie- to answer your question... if the idea of god were removed no i still could not kill anybody for no reason. Home invasion or self defense.. no problem. God or no god out there.

See, you even admit yourself that there is no need for god, for a person to be moral, empathetic to others.

Norfolk and chance, I think some people automaticlly look for arrogance in christians. No arrogance here my friend. You misunderstand. Some heroin addicts are never ready. Some non believers will never be ready to believe. I guess I should have been more specific. I forgot where i was for a second. Speaking of arrogance though... Im not saying you, because I dont know you but some of my atheist friends that I do have that believe neither in god or any kind of creating force beleive THEMSELVES to be of the highest life forms in the universe. How is that not arrogant?

And you need to read more carefully as well. What I said was im not going to waste my time trying to convert anybody here because, as simply as i can possibly put it... people that dont want to convert will not convert. Nowhere have i said im wasting my time being here on this forum. Im here to get things from another perspective. And I am.

You say I admit that there is no need for a god simply because I stated if the IDEA of god were removed that I still would show respect for others. I admit no such thing. Here is where im asking for it but I do not care. I believe if god wanted us to be on our own and completely abandoned his creation it would literally be..hell. Hell is the absence of god. thanks for your comments. peace