A prime example. Time and time again soldiers (who have been drilled and trained for explicitly this purpose) fail to perform their duties. They freeze, they refuse to fire, they intentionally miss, and sometimes they go so far as to make it look very much like they are performing their "duty" when in actuality they are doing everything in their power to avoid it.

"It's the hard heart that kills".

(April 25, 2012 at 9:03 pm)deciple Wrote: ? Nobody here would argue here that man is a natural being.

I'll even go further. Man not only is a natural being but man's life naturally follows after the big bang (pretty much an inevitability). All it is essentially (life) is a huge system of autocatalytic chemical reactions that are out of equilibrium since equilibrium equals death for a living system.

(April 26, 2012 at 10:23 am)Rhythm Wrote: A prime example. Time and time again soldiers (who have been drilled and trained for explicitly this purpose) fail to perform their duties. They freeze, they refuse to fire, they intentionally miss, and sometimes they go so far as to make it look very much like they are performing their "duty" when in actuality they are doing everything in their power to avoid it.

"It's the hard heart that kills".

It's something that has been called the 'Stormtrooper aim' effect. Dehumanise your opponent and he becomes just another target. Look him in the eye and now it's personal.

To my perpetual shame and most likely lifelong disappointment (though, simultaneously great pride and satisfaction), I got over that. I can't even say that dehumanization did it. I never bought into the "targets downrange" bit, but I can pull the trigger anyway. Yet, I have a wonderful little troop of monkeys that probably can't imagine a single negative thing about me (yet, I'm sure this will change). I had a wonderful upbringing, full of love. I am not a sociopath, and I don't see life as "worthless"..I do, in fact, think of it as "sacred"(albeit on my own terms).

My existence renders the OP's argument worthless by brute force of reality.

I personally think that selfishness is not evil ( unless you caused harm by doing so ), but intending to cause harm is. Humanity is naturally predisposed towards selfishness, as our priority is, above all else, to stay alive. Morality comes into the mix with variation. Things that reproduce sexually show moral behaviour, whereas asexual reproducers ( bacteria etc ) don't.

Evil, most often, is in the eye of the sufferer. A man who kills many in a battle can be seen as a hero on one side, but a monster on the other.

I thank all of you that answered my question seriously. Im not trying to prove any points here. Just wanted to see what people thought about it. Why does anything have to be a fight with some of you. How many times to I have to say it. I DONT GIVE A CRAP IF ANY OF YOU BELIEVE IN MY GOD!!! Of course I would like to think that one day you all will find him, i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean. So im not going to waste my time. Im just trying to see exactlly how people from the other side view things. Nothing more.

Had a long day at work im going to reply to as many of you as possible that commented. If i dont get to you im just tired. I still love ya.



Minimilist- im assuming your talking about the muslims? We dont read much these days about those radical christians screaming praise the lord and blowing themselves up. I actually think sky daddy is a cool name for him. If your trying to offend me you better try something different.

Rythm- why the hostility? Have I offended you just by believing differently then you? This post isnt about goddidit or whatever kind of crap you said. just wanna know how your mind works. I find out even if you dont answer any questions but still post. oh and if im reading correctly i am in great debt to you for your service. thank you for that and for replying to my little post on here.

cinjin- I didnt say i was a serial killer. And to be honest, with your writing style good sir, I cant tell if you are trying to just answer the question or your just prick sauce. I guess ill just say thank you and move on.

no more faith- awesome way to think about it brother. Of course I dont agree with all of it but i do agree with some of it. thank you.

Heff- Im glad you wouldnt kill a christian just because they are christian. I think you would be hard pressed right now to point out an example in the world anywhere where christians are slaughtering non believers.

stimbo- lets just pretend there isnt a god for a second. I could still see the beauty in mountains, trees, rivers, stars and all that stuff. It is nearly impossible for me to seperate the thought of them all being connected. I cant help but see him in all of those things. thanks for your reply.

Chuck- So you mean to tell me that you can call me an infantile moron after that reply you gave and keep a straight face. Grow up and get over yourself. obviously when asked to actually think you become uncomfortable. sorry.

Ace- thanks for the reply homie- to answer your question... if the idea of god were removed no i still could not kill anybody for no reason. Home invasion or self defense.. no problem. God or no god out there.

To anybody I missed im sorry. again, long day at work. good day.

I accept that you see the beauty in mountains, trees, rivers, stars etc. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The real question is do you see the physics in all those things? For example, stars are not simply dots of light forming pretty patterns in the sky. They are mindbogglingly immense nuclear fusion reactors held together by their own gravity; with the obvious exception of our own familiar Sun, exactly 100% of them are so far away from our world that, barring some technological paradigm shift, they are forever beyond our reach. What's more, there are 100,000,000,000 of them in our Galaxy alone - and there are literally trillions of other galaxies out there in the Universe, with more being discovered all the time. And all of this is to give us something beautiful to look at at night?

We can indeed look at trees and other similar biological entities in the natural environment and remark on how pretty they are. What we fail to appreciate by so doing is the continuous battle for survival these things represent. "Nature red in tooth and claw" isn't just a poetic turn of phrase. An idyllic woodland scene straight off a Hallmark birthday card is Nature's equivalent of the trenches of the Somme.

My whole point is that none of these things exist simply for our aesthetic sensibilities. If the natural world suggests a god to you because you think they do, that it's all for our purposes, you're missing the bigger picture. It's like playing a piano with eighty-seven missing keys. To quote a famous philosopher, "That is why you fail."

(April 26, 2012 at 11:28 pm)deciple Wrote: i realize trying to convert anybody who isnt ready is like telling a heroin addict he must get clean.

How arrogant.

Quote:So im not going to waste my time.

Don't forget to shut the door on your way out.

Quote:Ace- thanks for the reply homie- to answer your question... if the idea of god were removed no i still could not kill anybody for no reason. Home invasion or self defense.. no problem. God or no god out there.

See, you even admit yourself that there is no need for god, for a person to be moral, empathetic to others.

(April 26, 2012 at 11:28 pm)deciple Wrote: Heff- Im glad you wouldnt kill a christian just because they are christian. I think you would be hard pressed right now to point out an example in the world anywhere where christians are slaughtering non believers.

My statement was not meant to be taken literally. In fact, I rather harshly directed the comment to Christianity when there are currently other religions out there who are doing so.

I wonder though... Could still have been the literal truth if religion, in particular Christianity, had managed to retain it's grip on humanity as it did in previous centuries?

(April 26, 2012 at 9:57 am)libalchris Wrote:

(April 25, 2012 at 9:03 pm)deciple Wrote:

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Or arent we all i should say? Nobody here would argue here that man is a natural being. Most people think that if its nature then it has to be good right? People justify smoking a little weed.. because it comes from the earth "its natural" Some people justify homosexuality because its "natural" and other animal species practice it. Or the example i can most relate to, its natural for people to want to try diffenent things that they are told not to, such as drugs and alcohol. They may have some choice at the beginning but once the hooks go in and they become addicted. To be "high" becomes their "natural" state and to be anything other than feels supremely "un natural"

Then we have the ugly side of nature. Some animals eat their young. Human beings theist and atheist commit horrible crimes against their fellow man. Nature is survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive and the runt dies with no compassion or second thought.

Do you think human beings are born evil and have to learn to be good? or do you think we are born good and at some point turn evil or have evil tendencies now and then?

Its kind of scary to think but there are alot of people that wont kill you simply because they dont want to go to jail for a long time. Some people will kill you and not care if they go to jail for it. These kind of people usually have had a bad childhood, no guidence and nobody to give a crap about them their whole life. So they are left to figure things out on their own and what they figure out sometimes is that life isnt sacred or "worth anything".

This question goes out to the people who believe that we are made up of energy and when we die the energy disperses back into the universe.

If we are souless matter and its all random, then the feelings we feel, the bonds we make with other people, our thoughts and beliefs, everything. Its all just a never ending chain of chemical reactions.

why are you concerned with how anybody is treated? animal rights? equality for all men and women? fairness?
Why is it wrong when somebody cuts me off on the highway to beat their brains out with a hammer? Thats what comes natural to me at 1st thought. Its natural to lie to get out of trouble or get ahead. its natural to kill those that oppose you.

How is man the only animal that can defy his very nature? We compare ourselves to animals on various issues. None of them has the ability to defy their nature.

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Naturalistic Fallacy alert!

Damn! Beat me to it.

It's the Is-Ought gap at work again. Just we are able to do it or it is "natural" doesn't mean we ought to do it.

The bottom line is weed only hurts the person using it. Not really even.

Same thing with homosexuality. A consenting relationship between people of age to consent. Then it is no ones business. Simple.