God, come out, come out wherever you are!

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

“It was not a few weeks ago, it was only last week. Heheh. Anyway, I will have a go at your questions in that thread over the next couple of days. And it does not matter that it has no relevance to our discussion here; like most anyone else, I enjoy a broad range of subjects.”

I’m in a different time zone. It’s really May 10th where I am.

“The election by God of particular people for redemption is explicitly and clearly stated in the Bible. What is not stated in the Bible, nor is it even implied, is the reason why God chose these people but not those—although it does state what the reason was not, namely, anything to do with the people in themselves (Rom. 9:11; cf. v, 16; 2 Tim. 1:9). In other words, election is unconditional.”

Ok, election is unconditional. It has nothing to do with the person. It all has to do with God in other words.

“So what I mean to say is that there is no "difference" between who he did and did not choose, that there was no "special" quality about those he chose; we were all in the same boat, condemned under his wrath for our manifold sins (Titus 3:3-5).”

Ok, so you admit that there is no difference (or no special quality distinguishing the elect from the non-elect).

“So then why did he choose these people but not those? Why did he not choose everyone? We are not told what his reason was, beyond the fact that he has one (Eph. 1:11; Deut. 29:29); and it was arguably a smart move to not tell us, quite frankly, for we are thus unable to presume who is and is not part of the elect.”

Ok, now let’s remember, you’ve established that election is unconditional, and that there is no distinguishing quality between the elect and the non-elect. And now, you admit that you do not know why God choose a few rather than everyone. Well, it doesn’t matter what God’s reason might be then! God is evil merely by making election unconditional and only selecting a few. It still ultimately not the person’s fault, but God’s. Just because God has a reason (whatever it maybe) doesn’t take him off the hook.

Ok, let’s say Bob is at the judgement seat (Forgot for the moment whether this conversation could actually take place given your views. That’s not the point). He was never one of God’s elect. He was never chosen.

God: I never knew you. You shall be cast in the lake of fire.
Bob: Objection your honor.
God: Make it quick. I got a harp concert to attend in an hour.
Bob: Why does Larry over there get to go into your heavenly kingdom, while I get to roast for eternity?
God: Because I called him to me. Duh.
Bob: And why did you not you call me also?
God: Because Jesus over here...
Jesus: Yo. *peace sign*
God: ... Did not die for you.
Bob: Oh. I see. So, why didn’t Jesus die for me too?
God: Because I did not chose you.
Bob: And why not?!
God: Who are you to ask?
Bob: The person about to tortured forever and forever.
God: Well, when you put it that way *rolls eyes*
Bob: What’s your reason then?
God: Look, all I need to tell you is that you’re a terrible sinner.
Bob: I’ve seen Larry’s browser history.
God: Yeah, Incognito mode, Larry! Look it up!
Bob: So, you admit that Larry was a sinner too?
God: Yes. What’s your point?
Bob: What’s the difference then? We’re both sinners. Yet you condemn me for being a sinner and not Larry.
God: I know that. My reasons for condemning you are unconditional.
Bob: So it’s nothing I’ve done, it’s all your doing then? Correct?
God: Yep.
Bob: Why then, if I’ve done nothing more than Larry, am I to spend eternity in Hell?
God: I have my reasons.
Bob: And they are?
God: Not telling.
Bob: If my election was unconditional, then you’re an evil God. You doom people who do not deserve it.
God: Shut up. No one likes a sour puss.
*trap door under Bob opens*
God: Ok, who’s next in line for Hell? hmm. Gandhi, you’re next, you little weirdo.

[end of play]

“It is a stark difference from the non-elect, who are left unregenerated and remain under condemnation, left to continue enjoying their sin and increasing it, despising God and the things of God, an obdurate rebellion and ingratitude to which God responds by removing what little grace they had been extended, and in the end having to bear the penalty their sin is due themselves (which some here have even insisted on).”

So, basically, it sucks to be them. They just weren’t chosen and that’s too bad. I’m sorry if I sound sarcastic and incredulous, but the God you paint, whether you realize it or not, comes off as being incredibly evil. I don't care what his unknown reasons might be, the fact that he unconditionally condemns peoples makes him guilty.

“Again, being of the non-elect is why they do not go to heaven. It is not why they go to hell. They are condemned because of their multitude of sins, the penalty for which they must bear themselves (which some even insist on).”

I’m not sure how this distinction is meaningful. Is there some other place they could have gone? Can nonelect people go somewhere else other than Hell? What difference does it make to say that nonelect only go to hell because of their sins, when the elect are just as sinful? This does not take the blame away from God, because if God had chosen them, they would not be condemned to Hell. So your distinction hardly makes a distinction.

“You seem to be contradicting yourself here. If it is inevitable that the gospel of Jesus Christ will somehow reach every elect person, then it is not pointless at all.”

No, I’m not contradicting myself. I’m saying that each individual act of witnessing is pointless because if I don’t witness, it’s true that someone later down the road who isn’t lazy (and doesn’t realize its pointless) will witness to the guy or maybe something else will happen. God will always be successful in calling his chosen.