RE: Why I'm not an Atheist and believe in what I believe.
June 8, 2012 at 4:24 pm
(This post was last modified: June 8, 2012 at 4:35 pm by Mystic.)
(June 7, 2012 at 10:04 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Intuition is horrible justification to believe something. People have intuitions constantly, they almost always fail to model reality.
We already discussed about intuitions. Some intuitions can be wrong and we have little trust in them, some can be very strong and be reliable, and some can be definite, like logical rules which are intuitive and reliable.
Quote:Think of all the ridiculous claims that people believe based on intuition instead of demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument and valid logic.
I agree people believe wrong things, but to be honest, I really don't know of wrong things people believe on intuition alone. Not every false belief is based on feeling of intuitive knowledge and it seems to me, not many are.
Quote:Their intuition is just as strong as yours.
How do you know how strong my intuition is here and how do you know how strong their intuition is about false things?
Quote:Major logic fail. You're assuming the conclusion in your premise.
It wasn't to prove either God exists or that I have intuitive knowledge of God, just to show if God exists, then being given intuitive knowledge of him is not illogical.
So to say intuitive knowledge of God is illogical, you would have to show God existing and wanting to be known to be illogical.
Quote:Well, at least you admit that you believe because it makes you feel good.
Where did I state I believe because it makes me feel good? That could be a factor to why I chose to hold on to belief in God, but it's definitely not the reason in itself. My free-will and judgement of what I know here is really the reason while it can be influenced by other factors, like me wanting to believe.
I can say you have this knowledge of God but don't want to believe in him because of psychological reasons as well. It can go both ways.
Quote:Some of care too much whether our beliefs are true, or at least likely to be true. The best way to assure that, is by basing them on demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument & valid logic.
That maybe be true of many things, but not everything, like belief in morality or what some of the moral instances are.
Quote:Sure it's baseless. Your basing your belief on a feeling, not evidence.
What if this knowledge is as strong as or stronger then, our knowledge in logic? Those are intuitive, and although you can test them out, most of humanity relies on the logical rules without any formal training in logic.
People whom do formal training in logic also do fallacies just as people whom don't. And both are capable of recognizing those fallacies even if one doesn't have a formal name for them.
Quote:You haven't provided any knowledge of 'God'. All you've done is told us you have a 'feeling'. Your claim that you have intuitive knowledge that 'God' exists is meaningless.
It maybe meaningless to you, maybe others will feel they have this knowledge inside them as well, maybe others will reinvestigate if they should not belief in God because of lack of a formal proof or formal evidence.
Any ways, I didn't state it to convince anyone, or prove anything, it was just to answer why I believe what I believe as far it seems to me.
(June 8, 2012 at 3:47 am)genkaus Wrote: Just out of curiosity, can you actually justify that there is a spirit behind morality and that it is divine?
I can justify to myself for sure, I feel I can justify to others, but some people will deny what they know of morality to avoid what it points to (A divine eternal basis).
I've done this before in other threads. Perhaps I will re-try again.
(June 8, 2012 at 2:31 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Because empathy, and it's practical application, the golden rule, is a built in survival mechanism.
So basically your intention in being good should be to survive? This is again making morality devoid of it's noble spirit which we can all see, and that spirit is of course metaphysical and divine. When you deny metaphysical and divine spirit, when you deny a soul, you end up with "being good should be done in the spirit of surviving and serving self-interest".