Science + Creation

[Aiza]

Yes, Aiza, basically, at different points in time the church and its leaders have had different party lines, these have changed with time, some being codified, some not,

Give me one example of the Church changing its canon, ever. Go on. We are discussing the actual doctrines of Catholicism, which have never once changed.

You are seriously complaining that different Church Fathers thought different things, while leaving the Faithful all the freedom to believe in whatever they like? The exact same thing is true today. Catholics can be single instant Creationists, they can be 7 day Creationists, they can believe in evolution. This has always been true. This example is particularly ridiculous because nothing here was defined, nothing here was changed, nothing here was a swap of "party lines". We went from "no official position because its irrelevant" to "no official position because its irrelevant".

You've already been made aware of at least once instance where a Pope reversed the rulings of a previous Pope in another thread.

What "rulings"? Popes are infallible in matters of Faith+morals when speaking in their office as a Pope. Give me a single example of this "ruling" being overturned.

No they don't, you can't revise something without changing it...

Small t tradition are just practices and expressions. The exact same beliefs, you just change what color the altar cloths are. It has absolutely nothing to do with actual doctrine, so this whole conversation just betrays your ignorance more than anything.

So you keep claiming, but I think I'll just hold out for that opus of yours.

No Rhythm, not so"I" claim. So every single bit of research we have claims. Please, find me any evidence of an early manuscript without this "Petrine passage" and then I will continue to humor you. Until then, no.



And while I am at it, this goes for all the stuff about the Church "changing its mind" as well. I don't want to do your homework for you. Give me a concrete example or I won't even pretend to humor you. This is just goofy and you come across as more ignorant by the post.

I would link you to the Enchiridion Symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et morum (phew!), which is pretty much the official list of all Catholic dogmas within a single list, but since the free English translation of the site is down, I can link you to some Catechisms instead which might give you an idea, albeit incomplete, of Catholic doctrine which we might use as a starting point for your alleged "changes" (especially Trent + the CCC since those come officially from the Church:

Catechetical Instructions of Thomas Aquinas (13th Century): http://www.basilica.org/pages/ebooks/St....ctions.pdf
Catechism of Trent (1566): http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/ma...tindex.htm
Vaux's Catechism (1583): http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/vaux.htm
Douay Catechism (1649): http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/DouayCat.htm
Baltimore Catechism (1886): http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/ma...bindex.htm
Catechism of St. Pius X (1908): http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/ma...pindex.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church (1997): http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM