I would agree with you except that I don’t think that atheists are guilty of what you are claiming they are guilty of. It's a straw man argument. Yes, most assuredly a few are. I can find some pretty stupid arguments even among atheists. However, most atheists I know are not of this mindset and make extremely valid arguments. And you ignore them as though they and their arguments do not exist.
You deliberately forget that many god arguments are empirical arguments and can be tested using basic scientific or logic principles. This is best illustrated by the simple statement:
"A single well-substantiated fact, irreconcilable with a belief, is sufficient to prove that belief false."
Using this principle it is extremely easy to prove that your god is a fraud. One only need compare the empirical promises made by Jesus with the empirical reality that exists for those who follow his instructions and meet his conditions to the letter. For example:
Jesus Promised:
Matt: 6:25-34 “Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat’ or What shall we drink’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.”
(There are millions seeking his kingdom and his righteousness. And of these millions, many are without food, clothing, clean water, shelter or good health. The empirical reality is they haven't had anything added unto them.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 7:9-11 “What man is there of you whom if his son ask bread will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?”
(If you are starving to death in Somalia, you can beg Jesus for bread or fish till you drop. The empirical reality is that you don't get bread or fish or anything else for that matter. You don't even get the stone or the serpent. Every human I know will do better than that.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 18:19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there I am with them.”
(The empirical reality is that Christians agree in prayer every day by the millions. This doesn't produce delivery either.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 21:18-21 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, “Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
(The empirical reality is that you can believe to the n'th degree. You will not receive whatever you ask for in prayer. Absolutely not!)
Jesus Promised:
John 14:12-14 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye ask anything in my name I will do it.”
(The empirical reality is that this promise is totally false. Go ahead, ask anything in his name and watch nothing happen.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 17:20 “And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(The empirical reality is that out of the millions of Christians, not a single Christian has the faith to work a real miracle.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 16:27&28 “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste of death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
(The empirical reality is that they all saw death and he didn't return.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 24:34 “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” (The empirical reality is that the generation passed and nothing was fulfilled.)
Jesus Promised:
Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon.”
(Soon? Really. Is two thousand years soon? Of course not. But I'm sure you'll find a way to make it so.
Yes. Every Christian is capable of nullifying these scriptures with apologetics to avoid the obvious truth. One can easily spin a thousand misinterpretations and sophist excuses. For a time, it worked for me too.
But the fact remains, these promises are not vague. They are not out of context. They don’t need spin interpretations. They literally reflect what the Jesus of the Bible believed and they literally reflect the message he was trying to convey.
He was a religious nut and religious nuts are out of touch with reality.
Your Jesus god made many empire promises and fails to deliver on every one. I don't demand you prove he exists. I demand that he deliver as promised. Else, he is proven to be just another false god.
And as for the millions of false Christian testimonials? I once was among this legion of liars.
Perhaps you enjoy being among the millions of "liars for Jesus," but I don’t care to spend my one and only life nurturing lies and mastering the sophist art of deceiving others. I can’t do that anymore.
I hope you will understand. I didn’t share this with you expecting you to agree. In fact, I fully expect you will reject it. No empirical proof that Jesus is a fraud will ever be sufficient for the religious nut. They'll simply find some sophist trick to dismiss it. I simply shared it with you so you could understand how I got from being a Christian fanatic like you to being an atheist.
Secularone
You deliberately forget that many god arguments are empirical arguments and can be tested using basic scientific or logic principles. This is best illustrated by the simple statement:
"A single well-substantiated fact, irreconcilable with a belief, is sufficient to prove that belief false."
Using this principle it is extremely easy to prove that your god is a fraud. One only need compare the empirical promises made by Jesus with the empirical reality that exists for those who follow his instructions and meet his conditions to the letter. For example:
Jesus Promised:
Matt: 6:25-34 “Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat’ or What shall we drink’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.”
(There are millions seeking his kingdom and his righteousness. And of these millions, many are without food, clothing, clean water, shelter or good health. The empirical reality is they haven't had anything added unto them.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 7:9-11 “What man is there of you whom if his son ask bread will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?”
(If you are starving to death in Somalia, you can beg Jesus for bread or fish till you drop. The empirical reality is that you don't get bread or fish or anything else for that matter. You don't even get the stone or the serpent. Every human I know will do better than that.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 18:19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there I am with them.”
(The empirical reality is that Christians agree in prayer every day by the millions. This doesn't produce delivery either.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 21:18-21 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, “Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
(The empirical reality is that you can believe to the n'th degree. You will not receive whatever you ask for in prayer. Absolutely not!)
Jesus Promised:
John 14:12-14 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye ask anything in my name I will do it.”
(The empirical reality is that this promise is totally false. Go ahead, ask anything in his name and watch nothing happen.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 17:20 “And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(The empirical reality is that out of the millions of Christians, not a single Christian has the faith to work a real miracle.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 16:27&28 “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste of death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
(The empirical reality is that they all saw death and he didn't return.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 24:34 “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” (The empirical reality is that the generation passed and nothing was fulfilled.)
Jesus Promised:
Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon.”
(Soon? Really. Is two thousand years soon? Of course not. But I'm sure you'll find a way to make it so.
Yes. Every Christian is capable of nullifying these scriptures with apologetics to avoid the obvious truth. One can easily spin a thousand misinterpretations and sophist excuses. For a time, it worked for me too.
But the fact remains, these promises are not vague. They are not out of context. They don’t need spin interpretations. They literally reflect what the Jesus of the Bible believed and they literally reflect the message he was trying to convey.
He was a religious nut and religious nuts are out of touch with reality.
Your Jesus god made many empire promises and fails to deliver on every one. I don't demand you prove he exists. I demand that he deliver as promised. Else, he is proven to be just another false god.
And as for the millions of false Christian testimonials? I once was among this legion of liars.
Perhaps you enjoy being among the millions of "liars for Jesus," but I don’t care to spend my one and only life nurturing lies and mastering the sophist art of deceiving others. I can’t do that anymore.
I hope you will understand. I didn’t share this with you expecting you to agree. In fact, I fully expect you will reject it. No empirical proof that Jesus is a fraud will ever be sufficient for the religious nut. They'll simply find some sophist trick to dismiss it. I simply shared it with you so you could understand how I got from being a Christian fanatic like you to being an atheist.
Secularone
