Am I a "liberal"?

[Tiberius]

Adrian,
Multiculturalism is defined in Chambers as-
" the policy of accomodating any number of distinct cultures within the one society WITHOUT PREJUDICE OR DISCRIMINATION "

That's one definition of multiculturalism, but here is another:

the preservation of different cultures or cultural identities within a unified society, as a state or nation.

Very different meaning it seems. However both support my point. You have alluded several times that racism is still around, and even in some of the top jobs that there is racism, so we have not got there without prejudice or discrimination. My statistics show that 91% of us are white, and out of the remaining 9%, that includes people who are culturally British. We do not preserve cultures, we merge them into one. There is an Indian guy who runs the corner shop a few minutes from my house; he is a first generation immigrant (speaks perfect English as well) but insists people call him "David" rather than his real name. His cultural identity has not been preserved at all.

That is our country.....but I'll agree one thing with you, we haven't quite got there on the last bit in capitals.

Indeed, so we are not a multicultural society...yet. So glad you finally agree with me. I'll agree that we're "semi-multicultural", but we are not all the way there by a long shot.

Re. links to cases and the tv programme, no I can't. Search yourself if you really want to, but it won't help you.

Burden of proof is still on you. We don't let theists get away with dodging the evidence, so I'm not going to let you get away with it either. Why won't it "help me"? If this were a problem, the evidence would be out there.

According to you we are all born equal. Bill Gates child is the same as a child born to the poorest woman on the planet. Remember that one? You assert this by separating out economic matters from some pure ideal of equality. Totally nonsense.

As I repeatedly told you at the time, you are creating a strawman of my argument. My argument did not rely on any economic issues, but idealogical ones. As I explained when I originally wrote this, I see everyone as ideologically equal; we all deserve life, liberty, and prosperity. Everyone has these rights. Everyone is born ideologically equal, despite what society they are born into.

You argued the same way over your libertarian politics, attemting to separate social from economic matters. Again, totally divorced from reality.

Social matters have absolutely nothing to do with economic ones. You can easily distinguish which idea goes into which box, and this is what all political evaluations are based on; how you fair in economic matters vs how you fair in social matters. Freedom of speech is not an economic matter, it is a social matter. Minimum wage is not a social matter, it is an economic matter. How is this "divorced from reality"?

The point of mentioning Ron Atkinson was to show how some people are racist but don't realise they are. Others are racist but claim they aren't....tell-tale sign is when these types say " I'm not racist BUT...." followed by a racist tirade.

Point out a place where I did that. I just did the search. At no point did I ever utter the words "I'm not racist BUT", nor did I make any racist tirade. I am not a racist!!! I'm a pro-equality anti-racist, rather than the traditional "pro-minority anti-racist". I would prefer to see all people considered equal than the minorities treated as better than the majorities. The latter I find to be a very anti-white for of racism, and I abhor racism in any form.

I can only judge you by what you've said here on the racism arguments. Initially, you saw no racism in a post about the poor performance of black politicians. You exhibit extreme dislike for anti-racists.
You have used disparaging language towards non-whites in this very thread. You dispute we are multicultural. The evidence is what it is.

The thread was about the poor performance of black politicians in a predominantly black society. That was something you failed to see. I a black society, most of the politicians will be black, and given that a lot of politicians are bad, it is no wonder there would be black politicians. The same applies in any political system, but you simply jumped out with the racism card because you took it the wrong way. josef explained his post later on, and everything he said was in agreement with my original explanation: http://atheistforums.org/thread-626-post...ml#pid9739

I dislike anti-racists who support the elevation of minorities to some higher status that the rest of the population. I only see this as a complete reversal of the targets of racism. I'll say it again, I would much prefer a society where everyone is viewed as equal, regardless of skin colour, than a society where minorities are treated as special and deserving of special treatment (such as a fast track to employment).

I dispute we are multicultural because we do not have a large population of minority groups at all. We have a 91% white population, and as you say, racism is still around. We do not fulfil any of the requirements of the definition of "multiculturalism".

Finally, like your libertarian comrade Dlf, you are egocentric. You both look out for number 1, that is what you look for in your politics.

This is plainly absurd. I am massively in debt with student loans, I don't have a job, etc. If I were looking out for number 1, I'd support welfare and as much money as I could get my hands on. I don't support either. I am fully aware that in a Libertarian society, I would need to get off my ass and get a job as soon as I graduated from university. I am prepared for that because it is the only fair way of doing things.

Consider this, if you were not Tiberius and white, but Winston Small and black, and you kept getting discriminated against in the workplace, wouldn't you be " pissed off "?

Indeed I would, but my solution would not be to demand I get a better job because I'm a minority; I would seek to educate people about my culture so that they would not discriminate. I would work my way up the job ladder as everyone else is supposed to.

You did not answer my question by the way, and since I just answered yours, I'd very much like an answer: "How would you feel if you were turned down for a job in favour of a less qualified ethnic minority worker?"