Christians

[ecolox]

Explanations are a human requirement. Just because you want a reason for the Universe does not mean there is one. The Universe does not have to conform to your expectations of it!

What is there about that, that you do not understand?

Explanations are required by rationality. How can I understand Mr. Darwinian who pretends to insist on rational explanations, but when it really matters he backs down and says "whoa there fella - the Universe doesn't have to make sense after all".

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You are an idiot ecolox, if you are unable to conceive of a way it could exist without magic man, but there is still so much to learn, and none of what has ever been proven to be correct about the universe has never needed god as an explanation.

Just because you can't conceive of the possibilities, all proudly backed by loads of evidence and generations of research, does not mean your first-guess conclusion has any relevance.

theVOID, you haven't explained why you exist, I have. You haven't even laid out the possibilities. There isn't much point in even addressing you unless you can do just that.

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There are many Atheists who are good people, decent and intellectual. Just because a person is Atheist does not in any way incur that they are indecent, immoral individuals. Many people who do not have anything to do with the supernatural live perfectly normal, fulfilled lives. In fact, theism causes certain individuals to commit suicide and kill others so I could just as easily tell you that theism amounts to nothing good either. However, that wouldn't be a totally fair statement. It is a matter of perspective at the end of the day.

What atheists are truly good people? What is the best thing that an atheist can live for? Living a "normal, fulfilled" life doesn't mean jack! Where's the atheist equivalent of Jesus? Would you do what Jesus did Retorth? I hope I would.

If I may ask, why do you refer to Atheists as "Anti-theists"? Or are you referring to another group altogether? Just so I don't misunderstand.

Those are the people that attack theists for their beliefs...hence the name "anti-theist".

Then I guess I'll have helped all those people for nothing (including myself).

Personally, I don't think that would have been wasted help. If not for god, you would have done it out of the pureness of your heart. You should not require a god to 'encourage' you to do what is right.

If there is no God, then there is no reason to exist. You have yet to offer up an explanation that explains why you exist.

Not really. People default to living for themselves - "I've seen it a thousand times". Jesus said that living for your friends and family isn't good enough anyway - and I agree with that.

Well thats his perogative then isn't it? Living to enjoy the joy of having a warm family and friends around me is what keeps me and I believe many others like myself going in this life. Instead of forcing myself to do good while I'm alive, just so I can get my name in the "good" book to secure a place in heaven, I do good because I choose to.

Now you say you do good because you choose to, which I agree with of course, but earlier you said, and I quote:

Then I guess I'll have helped all those people for nothing (including myself).

Well, technically I didn't say the quote that doesn't have a name attached, if that clarifies anything. I don't know where that quote came from. I guess you fabricated it, who knows.

Then I'll have loved my enemies and neighbors for no reason, and taken care of my own mind, body and soul for naught. I'm willing to risk all that in my self-bet that He exists.

But why do you feel that it would then all be in vain? Are you saying that whatever good you do at present is not out of the goodness of your own heart but only because god said to do so?

Imagine if you and your mom were starving to death on a mountain top. No way to get down, no way you'd be rescued, a hopeless situation. What difference would it make if your mom killed herself to let you eat her (an act of self-sacrifice) so that you could live for a couple days more - in a world without God. You would live a couple days more off of your mothers flesh, but then you would die too. What good would her act have ultimately done, really? Seriously. No other human would know about it, and even if they did find out they would just cease to exist too. What difference would it make ultimately?
The good that I do, I do to please God, not man - whether God approves of me or not, I will try to please Him. And I don't know what "the goodness of your own heart" is supposed to mean.

I would probably let myself expire if I had no reason to be alive.

How do you mean by "expire"?

I would neglect myself, and I would waste away and die.

How can you not choose? Either you follow Him or you exist without Him. Do you think you should be able to keep up with Him (and receive the related blessings) if you don't follow?

We are existing pretty darn well without him so far.

Are you delusional? Or that ignorant of the world in which you live?

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How do you know there is another life? What evidence do you have to support your assertions?
Life is not pointless, it is a wonder and a chance of existence. I work and aim for things I've yet to do because it betters the quality of life. Unless you got a better idea what to do with time? There is no guarantee of an afterlife, in fact the chances are against you for an afterlife. No evidence suggests that there is such a place. So I'd start looking for a purpose for this one and only existence for yourself! Because you maybe more wrong than you could possibly know.

Since you seemed to miss the majority of the salient points, I see no reason in responding to your long sermon of unqualified statements. I don't care to keep repeating my points for you, they are readily available. (one example: you have not explained the point of life - you just said you want to make it more enjoyable - why? it doesn't make sense without answering why).

I did see something worth responding to at the end of this quote - about finding a purpose. You want me to abandon the purpose I have found, and look for one that meets your criteria? No thanks - yours doesn't make any sense, which is why I found mine. You claim there is no evidence, and I say if there is no afterlife then this life doesn't mean anything.

If you will explain why you exist (and why the universe exists), then we will talk. Explain how life means something if it is ultimately obliterated and nothing lasts - then we'll talk. Imagine if carpenters built homes for the homeless that disappeared instantly - would you call the carpenters good? Why? What point would there be in writing a book with disappearing ink?

You just don't get it, and for that I pity you.