Finding Out [Whoever] Believes in God

[CliveStaples]

What I wrote is still up there and you're free to read it again.

Right. You said:

Conservatives are more prone to bad policy regarding religion because conservatives are more prone to be religious.

That is, the reason that conservatives have a higher incidence of bad policy regarding religion is merely because there are a higher portion of conservatives that are religious.

That doesn't mean that religious conservatives are more prone to bad religious policy than religious liberals.

Suppose that there are 100 conservatives and 100 liberals. Suppose further that 50 of the conservatives are religious, but only 10 of the liberals are.

Suppose further that every religious person, regardless of political affiliation, has a 10% chance of having bad religious policies.

Then the number of bad religious policies by party is...

Conservatives: 50*(.1) = 5
Liberals: 10*(.1) = 1

So there's a higher portion of religious conservatives, and a higher incidence of bad religious policy among conservatives, but religious liberals aren't less prone to bad religious policy than religious conservatives.

And if we were conducting a scientific experiment rather than a casual debate, I'd agree with you 100%.

Ah, so if we're in a casual debate, I should just accept as true anything that you describe as "common knowledge".

I'd say it's a pretty good sample of conservatives proudly and publicly demonstrating their contempt for the human rights of gay people using religion as their excuse. I have no intention of quote-mining every Republican politician in America just to satisfy you.

It's a sample of, what, 5 people? From the last year? And that's a good representative sample of how Republicans think in general?

How do you even know how Republicans reacted to these remarks? Didn't all of these campaigns crash and burn before the primaries?

If you can demonstrate evidence that liberal politicians oppose gay marriage on religious grounds in equal or greater number to conservative politicians doing the same, I will concede that my assertion, and common knowledge, are incorrect.

That's...I don't even know what to do with that.

First, showing that the incidence of religious opposition to same-sex marriage among liberals is at least as high as among conservatives does nothing to disprove that "Republicans are largely proud of viewing homosexuals as less than human".

Second, suppose the incidence of religious opposition to same-sex marriage among liberals is low, but the incidence of the violent torture and rape of homosexuals is incredibly high among liberals. By your standards, that would show that "Republicans are largely proud of viewing homosexuals as less than human" is false.



Whether Republicans are largely proud of viewing homosexuals as less than human isn't equivalent to whether Republicans oppose same-sex marriage on religious grounds. Maybe Republicans actually support same-sex marriage (on principles of limited government), but viscerally hate homosexuals as being unnatural. Maybe Republicans oppose same-sex marriage on religious grounds (on principles of theocratic government), but think that homosexuals are just as human as anyone else.

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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed, Clive? Don't get your panties in a wad.
Skepticism doesn't put extreme burden on different claims. The more extraordinary he claim, the more evidence is needed. In this case, very little evidence was needed to reach the conclusion I did.
In any case, why do you think I employed the rhetoric I did? If I have to point it out for you it feels like ruining a good joke, telling the slow kid why the punchline was pertinent.

You use the same uncritical, circle-jerk rhetoric as everyone else here, who already knows in their heart that Christians and conservatives are stupid/evil/heartless/hateful/etc.

Another claim that seems true? Are you just prodding me for a response?
When I say something seems true, at least in this case, I mean that overwhelming evidence points to it being true.
Take Fox news, an obvious Republican propaganda station. Doesn't take much searching to find a clip where they badmouth gays or defend "family values".

Badmouth gays? Can you get me a video?

I believe there is a Christian run "family values" institution, largely republican, who condemn gays and all that they stand for.

Oh, well, if there's one organization that's Christian and largely republican that condemns gays and all that they stand for--and I'm guessing you're just blanking on the name right now--then of course most Republicans condemn gays and all that they stand for.

Look at DOMA and bills like it, and look at who is defending the current laws that prevent gay marriage in most states. Our far right is overwhelmingly Republican. You can see Republicans calling congressional member Communists with little repercussion from congressional leaders.

I guess we're just taking as read that opposing same-sex marriage means you hate homosexuals, yes? One more of those special kinds of claims that don't require you to give evidence?

And what's wrong with calling people Communists? Should that be punished? Are they wrong to call people Communists, or does that not even matter?

"My faith inform my belief," you'll hear people say. What do you think that means? In deuteronomy does it say to be accepting of all peoples, gay, Muslim, or otherwise?
What better depictions can I provide other than Fox and the Christian Coalition? It is simply overwhelming obvious. It seems that way.

Yeah, if you're not thinking critically and already have your conclusion in mind, I'm guessing everything seems pretty obvious. You seem like a "seems pretty obvious"-level thinker.