RE: Better reasons to quit Christianity
August 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2012 at 2:48 pm by Undeceived.)
Here's what I've gathered from this discussion:
In the sense of before life (our genetics), we are predestined. In the sense of in our life, we have free will. We are mice in a maze with a myriad of choices before us—but not an infinity of choices. Free will requires an (a) and a (b). Controlling every variable in the universe is a very specific, paradoxical form of free will—this is the kind atheists like to limit God to. But a creation cannot possibly choose from an infinity of choices before it has attributes (tools) to choose with. We must rely on a creator to give us attributes. To this extent we are predestined. Only an eternal, uncreated being would escape such a form of predestination. Now during life, our choices are not predetermined, but our genetics are. Our genetics (and possibly our unique soul) make a decision between (a) and (b). If only our genetics make this decision, we are in a state of joint predestination and free will--meaning, God sets up all the variables to steer us one way, while we still make a choice. We cannot blame God for giving us limited choices because it is He we are indebted to for having choices at all. The only way we could receive other choices in our free will, like © and (d), is to receive different attributes--to become a different person. And then you would no longer be arguing for your free will, but Joe's free will. In short, you are who you are. If your free will changed, you would change. You would not be (Your Name).
Romans 9:20:
"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
In the sense of before life (our genetics), we are predestined. In the sense of in our life, we have free will. We are mice in a maze with a myriad of choices before us—but not an infinity of choices. Free will requires an (a) and a (b). Controlling every variable in the universe is a very specific, paradoxical form of free will—this is the kind atheists like to limit God to. But a creation cannot possibly choose from an infinity of choices before it has attributes (tools) to choose with. We must rely on a creator to give us attributes. To this extent we are predestined. Only an eternal, uncreated being would escape such a form of predestination. Now during life, our choices are not predetermined, but our genetics are. Our genetics (and possibly our unique soul) make a decision between (a) and (b). If only our genetics make this decision, we are in a state of joint predestination and free will--meaning, God sets up all the variables to steer us one way, while we still make a choice. We cannot blame God for giving us limited choices because it is He we are indebted to for having choices at all. The only way we could receive other choices in our free will, like © and (d), is to receive different attributes--to become a different person. And then you would no longer be arguing for your free will, but Joe's free will. In short, you are who you are. If your free will changed, you would change. You would not be (Your Name).
Romans 9:20:
"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
