RE: Better reasons to quit Christianity
August 20, 2012 at 7:34 pm
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2012 at 7:53 pm by Undeceived.)
(August 20, 2012 at 3:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't UD. I cannot, because our knowledge of the particulars of both the cosmos and ourselves has changed so drastically from the time we coined the phrase and the concept as to render it completely and utterly useless. It appears, at this point, to be an artifact of ignorance.If you won't define free will, how can we begin to argue whether precognition is in conflict with it?
However, whichever definition you choose, either 1 or 2, would be ruled out by a precognitive being (or, in the absence of a precognitive being, by predestination itself). No amount of wriggling on either term would alter that without abandoning the term in earnest, only clinging to the word so as to reconcile an ill-conceived myth with your own (though perhaps not entirely clear headed) much better understanding of the subject (relative to it's origins).
Are you saying there is no free will based on your "knowledge of the cosmos"? In that case, present your evidence. Don't impose science's definition of free will on God unless you are sure it's true.
Choice, to me, is not mutually exclusive from predestination. Do you think it is? Or are they both the same, but you use the term "predestination" anyway? To be clearer-
Scenario: God creates our genes and therefore determines our future choices. We make choices based on the attributes we possess (which come from our genes). God predestined. We also chose what we wanted. Never did we deny our own wishes. In this scenario, predestination and choice work together. They are equally involved. The only way you could get a stronger grip on your life is to choose your own attributes, which is impossible without first having some.
But even this scenario has a problem. It assumes that genes make decisions.
(August 20, 2012 at 5:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If the future can be known, it is not a series of choices (except from the flawed point of view of the individual that does not have precognitive abilities), more a steady flow of inevitability.Ah, this makes more sense now. If this is your definition of a precog, then God is not a precog. He is not bound to know only inevitabilities. To Him, everything is in the present. He is outside of time. Or to put it in terms of time, he can foresee a person's choices before they make them (using knowledge of the situation/person's personality/ect.). If you dispute this, please tell me your definition of "inevitability" and explain how it a choice cannot be part of it. Not everything is inevitable, is it?