RE: Better reasons to quit Christianity
August 21, 2012 at 1:26 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2012 at 1:35 pm by Undeceived.)
(August 21, 2012 at 12:59 am)Rhythm Wrote:So nothing is determining reality. How does reality happen then? How does Joe actually buy the car? Either he decides, a god decides, or nature decides. If you say Joe, that's a choice. If you say a god, the god works through either people or nature. And if you say nature, you're back to genes determining choices. How is it so impossible that Joe can make his choice and the precog just be knowledgable about it? Who says a precog can only see the inevitable? Perhaps it becomes inevitable, but not until Joe has made his choice. Let me put it this way: just because reality has one path doesn't mean characters couldn't have diverted reality onto a different path. The precog simply knows what that one path of reality has become.Quote:Let me ask this: Into what hands is the decision put into? In the presence of a knowledge-only precog, who or what is determining reality?Try none, no hands, no decision? What determines the circumstances which leads to the "decision" would depend on the "decision", but it wouldn't alter the nature of that "decision" with regards to the precogs ability to experience predestined events. We could propose that a pancake set the events rolling, that neither the Precog nor Joe where there (or even aware that this occurred), that the pancake had no intentions, is not controlling anything, and has long since disintegrated....but the illusory nature of Joe's "decision" is made perfectly clear and plain the very moment the precog experiences it - assuming...that the precog is, in fact, precognitive.
If that isn't a choice, I don't know what is. The person picks what they want in the face of a theoretical, accessible alternative. To me, that's free will.
(August 21, 2012 at 11:19 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: With the Biblical creation story, he would have known Eve and Adam as he made them would succumb to the temptation they were going to face and he made them exactly that way anyway rather than with the X% more resistance to temptation that they needed to make the choice he wanted them to make. From that, it's obvious that the choice he wanted them to make was to fail his test, for which they were then punished for doing exactly what they were made to do.In order for love to exist, God had to grant Adam and Eve perfect free will. He knew they would fail, but determined He'd rather have a world of sin and love than a world of stoic robots. Can you explain to me what X% more resistance actually looks like?