RE: Better reasons to quit Christianity
August 22, 2012 at 3:49 pm
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2012 at 4:13 pm by spockrates.)
(August 22, 2012 at 3:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, again you are assuming that time "changes" when it is observed (an effect of the observer or of being observed). You are ignoring that time may already be static, for example.
I'm simply stating that however the events came to be predestined is irrelevant, that they -are- predestined is a requirement for precognition.
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So you are thinking time is already static, and nothing anyone decides to do and does will change time. You might be right. Time might be like a stained-glass window with an outcome that is as changeless as Calvin said God was changeless.
Then again, time might be constantly changing. Rather than like stained-glass, it might be more of a kaleidoscope. If you, or I were to travel to the future, and return to the past, the outcome we witnessed ahead of time might not be the outcome that actually turns out to be when the future arrives again. The outcome we saw in our time-traveling holiday might have been only one of many possible outcomes.
But I've asked myself, "What if Rythm is correct and time is changeless and free choice is merely an illusion? Would this be proof that God does not exist?" The reason why I asked myself is because Calvinists and others who hold to the tenets of Reformed Theology would agree with you and say freewill is unreal, and all that we say, think and do, all that was and is and is to come, is predetermined by God. (Yes, I understand you disagree that anyone or anything caused time to be static, but I'm wondering how time being static and freewill being an illusion is any proof that God cannot possibly exist, since this is exactly what Calvinists believe.)
(August 22, 2012 at 3:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I can't honestly claim to have ever felt that I had much choice in those whom I loved (or did not) Spock....just throwing that out there.
Of course not, for choice is an illusion and as unreal as God! But don't you mean you cannot honestly say you had any choice at all? If someone asks why you don't love them, I suppose you can sincerely say, "It's not I who chose to hate you; Time made me do it!"

"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
--Spock