RE: Better reasons to quit Christianity
August 25, 2012 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: August 25, 2012 at 5:49 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(August 25, 2012 at 4:11 pm)spockrates Wrote: ...
Thanks, Tea. Please tell me: What evidence do you expect a true religion to have? Will you be more specific?
It depends on the religion and its claims. For Christianity, I would need evidence that Jesus was the son God, performed miracles, died on a cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead. The only evidence I get are contradictory reports several decades later from the events who do not document the story anywhere close to the best scientific and historical methods of the time (Luke is the only gospel that pretends to be historical investigation but it's pathetic compared to real histories from real historians that lived around that era). They contain stories that are very similar to other myths that we know for certain preceded Christianity. The story follows the dying and rising motif common in myths. (apologists like to point out little differences and act like that means anything but they're just nit picking and missing the obvious basic similarities).
If Christianity were true, I would expect multiple independent (the gospels are not independent) witnesses writing from the time of Jesus' life describing his miraculous deeds. The miracles would have to be truly spectacular events that aren't the same sort of "miracles" that cults have been always fooling themselves and others with. The witnesses' stories would have to corroborate with each other yet not be dependent on another. I would expect the same for Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and ascension.
If Christianity were true, I would expect a massive growth rate of Christians in the first century. Instead it's the same puny rate that other aggressively evangelistic religions experience. Assuming Jesus did all these great miracles and rose from the dead I would expect many more converts than there were.
If Christianity were true, I would expect us now 2000 years later to have some sort of assurance that first century Christians were joining because they critically analyzed the evidence for and against the truth of Christianity (interviewing witnesses, testing to see if miracles of Jesus and the apostles, and also their own tongue speaking were really miraculous events and not just tricks or fiction). Instead, the only evidence we have of any sort of critical investigation was converts deciding Christianity was true because it agreed with the O.T. and it seemed better than the other religions! Hardly objective reasons to join a religion.
If Christianity were true, I would have expected the tradition of believers to perform miracles and speak tongues (in a way that was plainly miraculous i.e. not like pentecostals) not to have died out like it always does in other religions.
I would also like evidence of an afterlife, including evidence of heaven and hell. I would like evidence of soul. I would like evidence of this so called "sin nature" I was supposed to have inherited (I didn't have any choice in matter apparently!) from Adam. It would have been really cool if maybe we found some sort of "soul chamber" in our body with like a glowing light or something but nope, all just flesh and bone. It would have been cool if we could actually see heaven with our own eyes (in a way that doesn't involve oxygen depreciation) but all we see is blue sky and space and barren planets. It would have been frightfully cool if we could detect the screams of people down under the ground in hell, but all we find is dirt, rock, and lava. It would be cool if maybe under a microscope we could see little "sin nature" microbes that our body is covered with. Don't see that or any evidence of our sin nature.
I could think of some more evidences I would expect, but I'm out time.
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).