(August 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Hello Brian,
I have had experiences that, it seems to me, are best explained by the God of Jesus Christ existing. Granted that this is not an argument for God, but I can certainly think of examples where one is justified in believing their experience to be true, even if they cannot prove this experience to others. However, as one cannot experience directly the non-existence of God (nothingness has no presence which can be directly experienced), I don't think atheism can be justified that way. And as you have looked for a sensible argument for God's existence, I have also looked for a good argument against God's existence and haven't found one. Your post also didn't seem to contain a convincing one. While it is true that humans are capable of believing things based on wish fulfillment, the simple assertion of this would call into question all of our beliefs, and not just God. Some could see atheism as wish fulfillment if one wanted to as well. Atheism, like God, is nonphysical, and the non-existence of God is not going to be found in the scientific laboratory. Likewise, simply, from the fact of suffering it doesn't seem to follow that there is no God because it seems possible that God could have a morally sufficient reason for allowing this suffering. If I have missed any of your arguments, feel free to bring them up and I will respond.
Kind regards,
- Jeff
First off, "personal experiences" do not count. Jews and Muslims can tell you their stories of "personal experience". If you knew anything about evolution, human psychology or mere INK BLOT tests, you'd now that our perceptions are notoriously flawed and quite often wrong.
Secondly, suffering does not disprove the existence of Allah, Yahweh, Thor or Posiden either so those gods exist by default as well?
BUT if you read my post what I was addressing was the CONCEPT in claiming that a god claim has the attribute of being all powerful, and has our best interest in mind. What we see in reality despite what ALL god claimants propose conflicts with that concept.
No sane person in their right mind would allow their own child to suffer the way this god character does. So STRICTLY as a claim it is logically inconsistent.
There are 35 million deaths a year world wide. From every type, cancer, crime, war, famine, young, babies, old and everyone in between. If you want to call that a plan?
If you have a kid, or baby sat a kid, would you put them in a house full of razor blades, broken glass, poison all over the floor, full of cockroaches in a shanty shack in the middle of a mudslide prone valley and then blame the kid for what you did not have to set up?
Name me one period in human evolution, where disease, famine, natural disaster and war never happened.
You cant, so the only explanation for your "experience" that makes any rational sense is that you fall for a super hero claim for the same reason humans throughout history have. You want a magical protector to replace your parents. But just like all the dead gods you don't believe in, you as well are merely allowing your "perception" to fool you because your desire over rides your ability to question.
