Brian37 wrote: "First off, "personal experiences" do not count. Jews and Muslims can tell you their stories of "personal experience". If you knew anything about evolution, human psychology or mere INK BLOT tests, you'd now that our perceptions are notoriously flawed and quite often wrong."
Personal experiences DO count. I'll cite one such, which I experienced: first some background...
(1) When I was in Middle School, my 6th grade teacher covered an Asian section in Social Studies. During this section, we chose a country on which to report - not just encyclopedic regurgitation, but also preparation of food to share with the class as a way of better understanding the culture (short of traveling there). My choice was Japan. I was interested in the culture, particularly the government instituted through the Samurai structure. It was a passing interest. And although it elicited an "A" from that study, it had no lasting fascination.
(2) I earned a Naval Officer commission, upon graduation from a university. I was single, and I intended to get married "some day". But, I had no expectations, nor recent social involvements. My first posting was aboard a ship based on the west coast, which made port visit in Yokosuka, and permitted a visit to Tokyo. It satisfied my curiosity, and rounded out the study in from so many years before. I gave it no further thought. A university (and grade school) classmate of mine was commissioned a Marine Officer, and was posted to Okinawa, Japan.
(3) My next tour of duty was to a deployed group staff, homeported on Okinawa. I looked forward to renewing my friendship with my classmate. He was a bit of a card, and liked playing practicaljokes on people, but I'd never been the butt of his activities. My first night on Okinawa, the staff flag secretary (a Commander) invited me to accompany him - he'd show me around, so I could get my bearings (traveling from White Beach to Kadena). We stopped to catch a bite to eat, at a local equivalent of a cafe (both food and drink).
(4) Now, we hear sailor stories of places around the world where "hostess" has a very vulgar meaning than our dictionary would lead us to believe. In this case, that sailor meaning was NOT applicable. We were ushered to a singular booth, separated from the other seating by the equivalent of a dance floor. Two hostesses kept us conversationally occupied, and ensured we were served some sustenance. I sat against the wall, as did my running mate - the hostesses seated on the aisle side. During the meal, I felt a tap on my right shoulder. I was expecting that my classmate had seen me before I'd seen him. As soon as I felt it, I swung around left (assuming the child trick of standing to the opposite side as the one tapped, and reaching around) - there was no one within fifteen feet of us. There was no commotion to indicate a quick sidestep. The booth pillar was too narrow to hide someone. All other patrons were seated, despite the music. As my meal progressed, I felt a palpable pressure on my right cheek - causing me to turn my head and look at the young hostess beside me, and study her features in detail.
(5) I'm not a bigot by any stretch of the imagination. I had no expectations, being in Japan, about seeking or finding my future mate during my posting there. In fact, I was inclined the other direction. I will tell you the thought that next crossed my mind did not originate with me. Verbatim, the thought was "I'm going to marry this girl". In order to shorten this, somewhat, I'll call out some pertinent points: (a) this girl was a member of Samurai heritage; (b) her step-father was a Shinto priest (and Imperial court noble) who educated her at three different denominational parochial boarding schools, during which she learned Christian precepts; © her step-father was a retired Captain of the Imperial Japanese Navy in WWII (surface ships, as was I), who was unimpressed by her prior native suitors; (d) in my one and only opportunity to visit him, I brought the expected social gift (in honor of my host) - and it happened to be his exact favorite beverage.
The lady has been my wife for over 30 years, and two children who were so low maintenance/effort to raise, does not happen by chance when taken with the other factors. Another interesting tidbit - my wife was born exactly three years before me (almost to the hour). Our interests are so nearly identical as to cause a person to think we're actually brother and sister.
All of these contributors falling into place, in such a favorable manner, is something I cannot attribute to chance. Particularly, I cannot accept the tap on the shoulder, the pressure on my cheek, and the matter-of-fact conclusion about my initial contact with her as being a result of human (or natural) sources.
Separate issue - Psychology is a pseudo-science. It masquerades as science, when it cannot conduct tests with controls that are free of highly variable pre-conditions. Ink blots are just that, often printed as symmetrical patterns. When a test is conducted, the testor should be employing a method from which he has accurate expectation of the results (he's asking a question for which he's seeking confirmation, not unexpected deviation) - not an open-ended procedure.
Brian37 wrote: "If you have a kid, or baby sat a kid, would you put them in a house full of razor blades, broken glass, poison all over the floor, full of cockroaches in a shanty shack in the middle of a mudslide prone valley and then blame the kid for what you did not have to set up?"
If you were going to abandon the child to the toilet conditions you describe, then I would have reservations about trusting the wisdom. However, when the child is developing, one doesn't leave him to the solitary care of the babysitter - teaching how to negotiate hazards. And, being children, each child has some growing up to do. And, there are some matter-of-fact points each child should know (e.g. cause and effect) and that freedom of action has a price (as does disobedience).
Brian73 wrote: "Name me one period in human evolution, where disease, famine, natural disaster and war never happened."
A loaded question, when one presupposes evolution. Assuming evolution, the inclusion of war is not a natural process - I vote "foul", no contest. Putting evolution aside, I say "once" - before the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden.
Personal experiences DO count. I'll cite one such, which I experienced: first some background...
(1) When I was in Middle School, my 6th grade teacher covered an Asian section in Social Studies. During this section, we chose a country on which to report - not just encyclopedic regurgitation, but also preparation of food to share with the class as a way of better understanding the culture (short of traveling there). My choice was Japan. I was interested in the culture, particularly the government instituted through the Samurai structure. It was a passing interest. And although it elicited an "A" from that study, it had no lasting fascination.
(2) I earned a Naval Officer commission, upon graduation from a university. I was single, and I intended to get married "some day". But, I had no expectations, nor recent social involvements. My first posting was aboard a ship based on the west coast, which made port visit in Yokosuka, and permitted a visit to Tokyo. It satisfied my curiosity, and rounded out the study in from so many years before. I gave it no further thought. A university (and grade school) classmate of mine was commissioned a Marine Officer, and was posted to Okinawa, Japan.
(3) My next tour of duty was to a deployed group staff, homeported on Okinawa. I looked forward to renewing my friendship with my classmate. He was a bit of a card, and liked playing practicaljokes on people, but I'd never been the butt of his activities. My first night on Okinawa, the staff flag secretary (a Commander) invited me to accompany him - he'd show me around, so I could get my bearings (traveling from White Beach to Kadena). We stopped to catch a bite to eat, at a local equivalent of a cafe (both food and drink).
(4) Now, we hear sailor stories of places around the world where "hostess" has a very vulgar meaning than our dictionary would lead us to believe. In this case, that sailor meaning was NOT applicable. We were ushered to a singular booth, separated from the other seating by the equivalent of a dance floor. Two hostesses kept us conversationally occupied, and ensured we were served some sustenance. I sat against the wall, as did my running mate - the hostesses seated on the aisle side. During the meal, I felt a tap on my right shoulder. I was expecting that my classmate had seen me before I'd seen him. As soon as I felt it, I swung around left (assuming the child trick of standing to the opposite side as the one tapped, and reaching around) - there was no one within fifteen feet of us. There was no commotion to indicate a quick sidestep. The booth pillar was too narrow to hide someone. All other patrons were seated, despite the music. As my meal progressed, I felt a palpable pressure on my right cheek - causing me to turn my head and look at the young hostess beside me, and study her features in detail.
(5) I'm not a bigot by any stretch of the imagination. I had no expectations, being in Japan, about seeking or finding my future mate during my posting there. In fact, I was inclined the other direction. I will tell you the thought that next crossed my mind did not originate with me. Verbatim, the thought was "I'm going to marry this girl". In order to shorten this, somewhat, I'll call out some pertinent points: (a) this girl was a member of Samurai heritage; (b) her step-father was a Shinto priest (and Imperial court noble) who educated her at three different denominational parochial boarding schools, during which she learned Christian precepts; © her step-father was a retired Captain of the Imperial Japanese Navy in WWII (surface ships, as was I), who was unimpressed by her prior native suitors; (d) in my one and only opportunity to visit him, I brought the expected social gift (in honor of my host) - and it happened to be his exact favorite beverage.
The lady has been my wife for over 30 years, and two children who were so low maintenance/effort to raise, does not happen by chance when taken with the other factors. Another interesting tidbit - my wife was born exactly three years before me (almost to the hour). Our interests are so nearly identical as to cause a person to think we're actually brother and sister.
All of these contributors falling into place, in such a favorable manner, is something I cannot attribute to chance. Particularly, I cannot accept the tap on the shoulder, the pressure on my cheek, and the matter-of-fact conclusion about my initial contact with her as being a result of human (or natural) sources.
Separate issue - Psychology is a pseudo-science. It masquerades as science, when it cannot conduct tests with controls that are free of highly variable pre-conditions. Ink blots are just that, often printed as symmetrical patterns. When a test is conducted, the testor should be employing a method from which he has accurate expectation of the results (he's asking a question for which he's seeking confirmation, not unexpected deviation) - not an open-ended procedure.
Brian37 wrote: "If you have a kid, or baby sat a kid, would you put them in a house full of razor blades, broken glass, poison all over the floor, full of cockroaches in a shanty shack in the middle of a mudslide prone valley and then blame the kid for what you did not have to set up?"
If you were going to abandon the child to the toilet conditions you describe, then I would have reservations about trusting the wisdom. However, when the child is developing, one doesn't leave him to the solitary care of the babysitter - teaching how to negotiate hazards. And, being children, each child has some growing up to do. And, there are some matter-of-fact points each child should know (e.g. cause and effect) and that freedom of action has a price (as does disobedience).
Brian73 wrote: "Name me one period in human evolution, where disease, famine, natural disaster and war never happened."
A loaded question, when one presupposes evolution. Assuming evolution, the inclusion of war is not a natural process - I vote "foul", no contest. Putting evolution aside, I say "once" - before the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden.
DO... or DO NOT... there is no TRY!
