Free will is an illusion

[Angrboda]

Free will is an illuison? Let's consider Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.

I am sure that Beethoven composing his own Fifth Symphony isn't in dispute. Determinists now must claim that his Fifth Symphony was nothing more than a conglomeration of physical partical interaction in Beethoven's brain. If the deterministic view of things were to have any credibility then the random interactions of physical brain functions would spread musical genius across the species. The fact that there is only a small percentage of us with the capability of expressing ourselves expertly in this medium destroys determinism.

In addition to not understanding free will and determinism, your understanding of evolution looks rather suspect. Evolution dictates that all members of a species will show maximal fitness. Are you on crack?

I digress, let's stick to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.

Indeed, let's talk about it, instead of spooging all rapturous and shit on everything. Last year I was discussing the singularity with a group of atheists, and someone brought up the composer John Cage as an example of something uniquely human, creativity. I pointed out that John Cage wouldn't have been John Cage were it not for a history of musical development preceding him, and John Cage wouldn't have been John Cage were it not for a mass of people familiar with the musical idioms that he was building upon, nor would John Cage have been John Cage if he hadn't spent years going on decades studying the work of composers and musicians before him. John Cage didn't materialize out of nowhere, fully formed and completely independent of what came before. John Cage was John Cage because he existed in a river of incremental improvement and development. Newton said that if he has seen a bit farther it is because he stood on the shoulders of giants. Apparently he was wrong. We are completely free and independent of anything that went before.

Here's the mind fuck for determinists. A determinist must claim that every orchestra that has ever played Beethoven's Fifth Symphony was nothing more than a unique confluence of physical partical interaction. This says nothing about the humans and non-human resources involved in creating the instruments, the paper on which the music was copied, the building they are playing in, the clothing that the performers or spectators were wearing, the creation of the ads promoting the performance, etc. al. All of this must have happened without free-will according to the determinist.

I think the real mind fuck is your belief that your arguments are anything but irrelevant and immaterial twaddle.

I suppose that next your going to argue that the cars built by robots don't exist, because obviously deterministic things like robots can't build anything complex or significant. I'm beginning to suspect you have more than casual familiarity with having one's mind fucked.

Determinism is nothing more than the philosobable invoked by atheists that refuse to accept the idea of accountabilty. Accountabilty being nothing more than the simple recognition that human choices have consequences. Cause and effect is a real bitch. I happen to love that bitch.

You love it, except when it counsels against your favorite warm fuzzy. Then you go all noodley and pear shaped.