(August 30, 2012 at 10:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: Given a specific set of conditions as a cause, there is only one outcome for the effect- this is determinism (in it's hardest form). That's not really troubling for self determination in and of itself, as the cause could very well be your mind. The troubling bit begins when we propose that the effect can then, in turn, be the cause for the next effect. Since our minds cannot be even remotely argued to have been any sort of initial conditions- some begin to wonder if they are only* effects, leading again to effects which could have gone no other way. It's a very uncomfortable (and counter-intuitive) notion...I'll give you that.
*I use the term "only" merely as a simple illustrative word...clearly that "only" means a hell of alot to us, no small thing. However- our minds can be very important to us, integral; and yet be inconsequential in the grander scheme of things.
I am ok with much of the determinist argument. We are constrained by the laws of nature and the knowledge, collected through experience and reason, that informs our decisions. The act of invoking inevitibility at this point is premature. Neuroscience has simply not yet gotten to the point of explaining the rudimentary mechanics of the brain's decision making process. As DP said earlier, this essentially makes the debate at this point meaningless since there is nothing that will convince the other side and a determinist must at least acknowledge that partical interactions are responsible for my position and something that is out of my control.
I apologize to any that was upset with my accountability/bitch notion. I was only trying to be emphatic, but it seems it came across as rude. If decision making were ever proven to be illusory and outcomes inevitable, even a determinist would have to continue to comport themselves through existence as if free will was the norm. We have evolved to become 'choice machines' (I believe this is Dennett's idea, could be wrong). If the hard determinist position is ever proven right, then I suggest there is a natural paradox at play.
